Strange DAP / DAC Foepoe UD951C - DSD Multichannel support?

[AresLuna]

With the standard 30khz filter applied, 88.2khz is more than enough for DSD>PCM conversion.

This is true. I have been researching lately and doing lots of experimentation with pure DSD and DSD->PCM conversions using a Topping DM7 that i have borrowed for some testing from a forum internet "friend" that wants to sell it. To my ears (trained ones) i can't hear any differences between modes. I do admit that sometimes the placebo effect is doing its nasty tricks when i am converting to higher sampling rates. But measurements and testing have shown that i do have intermodulation distortion with my equipment with high sampling rates. So i am starting to believe that the mastering and the tuning of each component (DAC chip) along with the overall design of a DAC and amplifier are the main factors that determine the sonic signature on what i am hearing from my speakers and that the actual content presents no real difference between a 24/192 FLAC, a DSD256 file or a 24/96 or maybe a nicely done 16/44.1 file. I am not going to start another debate on pure DSD or if hi-res audio is really much superior compared to 16/44.1 PCM CD quality audio. So i think you are right.

Although i need to point out that a whole generation of Universal DVD Video/SACD/ DVD-Audio players from reputable manufacturers including Yamaha, Pioneer, Philips and others, aimed to bring SACD and DVD-Audio to the mass market segment. These used single chip (SoC) solutions that downconverted DSD to 88.2KHz and the loss in quality (increased noise floor and distortion products) was very much evident and certainly audible. Loss of clarity, definition, muffled audio, certainly not a nice implementation.

In comparison, the most affordable implementations that used DSD capable DAC chips and a separate DSD decoder chip from Philips or Sony and a carefully designed circuitry (for example the Yamaha DVD-S1700 or the Samsung DVD-HD945) they were much better performers!

All these were multichannel SACD players. The high-end equipment were (are) almost all 2-channel stereo SACD players.

Hello, I have been using an RH-899x as described further up this post.
I use a PC with HDMI out into the DAC And then the return HDMI into a monitor. There is a toslink from the TV box and various other peripherals. I have another PC with a pcm coax. Output primarily for redundancy. Left and right channels feeding into a QUAD 44 that has been extensively modernised And that feeds to QUAD 405RM that are vertically bi- amped . The Centre Channel is a home-made active speaker system. Using an extron Power amp converted to mono and surrounds by a lovely old Sony ta-ax2. This is further fed into another extron stereo power amp to boost the rears. Also, there is a lf bass speaker To control and balance all this I use four stereo volume controls Left and right front, Centre, rear surrounds and bass.
The mods to the quads mean there is silence during running; no hiss or hum. My main speakers are B&W matrix threes.
Using the PC / foobar2000 to play DSD iso files or multi channel Flac files I am more than impressed. The sound is nothing short of stupendous. The sound is crystal clear there is zero distortion it sounds warm luxurious involving very three dimensional. It is impossible to tell where the sound is actually coming from because the stage is so wide it is perfectly possible to place the instruments exactly as they are. It is so revealing, for example when listening to the song remains the same you can literally hear the floor where John Bonham drums are sitting on vibrating.
I have a large SD DSd collection and thoroughly enjoyed the immersive experience from these recordings. I have no one favourite but lots of Billy Cobham, war of the worlds, the Beatles Abbey Road The Moody Blues and jean Michelle jarre and tubular bells all explode with absolute incredible multichannel vitality. All from this little box the RH899X.. Even my brother who is critical said it would not sound better had you spent £20,000 on this system. The RH899X is very versatile, has many inputs. HDMI coax toslink analog so card usb etc. The remote controls the volume and the inputs. If it was trash, I would’ve canned it long ago. Occasionally I search for a more mainstream device which is how I found this forum and without spending thousands or making sacrifices on inputs yet to find anything. Realistically, there’s no reason to replace the RX899. Purists may it’s not pure DSD it’s dsd converted to pcm or whatever but I use my ears. I invite anyone to come and listen to what I’m hearing and criticise so for £150. This box does the job.

Can you please download multichannel DSD files and do some testing? It seems like you registered just to advertise this product. I am not judging that, but you need to give some more information about its capabilities on whether it can play multichannel DSD / FLAC files correctly through its own built in player (Not as a DAC) and what kind of DSD->PCM conversion it is doing.

Oops I meant onkyo not denon in that post

I remember there were issues with that line of receivers from Onkyo. Some Texas Instruments chips including the TMDS chip and the DSP chip were recalled and new revisions replaced them. Perhaps that could be the issue with your case too? Try to do an investigation.

Question: will the rx899 control a usb hard drive or spinning disc drive? If so how much memory can it handle? It would be too sweet if this thing could be a one-stop streaming center

I see no reason why the RX899 wouldn't supply enough power to a spinning hard disk drive. If that doesn't work you can always purchase a portable SSD USB drive which requires much less power.

Are you thinking of pulling the trigger and ordering this device?

 

[Carznmusic]

I have some work to do first, gotta build a rack with wheels so I can get to connections easier (system is on shelves in a closet, real pita to work with), then do some testing with my monoprice blackbird hdmi switch / extractor which stopped making sound a couple weeks ago that’s why I’m looking at the rx899. I don’t like to accumulate much stuff so if I can figure out what’s up the blackbird I’ll probably wait.

The onkyo is working fine now- I’m kind of mystified what happened but I (or my wife?) may have changed Settings accidentally. I went through all the connections, then used a Blu-ray player to stream instead off fire stick and voila! ???? Btw now fire stick also works fine

 

[Carznmusic]

I also re-did three surround tuning so lost any ability to trace the error. All's well that ends well!

 

[Carznmusic]

The not three. Stupid smart phone

 

[Carznmusic]

FYI I'm into "retrofitting" as much as possible, not only is newer tech often not as good as old school, but expensive and complicated. But feeding new digital formats is often challenging so I'm always scouting alternatives. I'm intrigued by Atmos but see no cost effective way to get into it. My experience with the Yamaha receiver has me very gun-shy of mainstream audio gear.

 

[scottm_dj]

I used to do this. Get your SACDs into an image format and use J River to read them. Then send that signal via USB to a multi-channel EXASOUND DAC (USB In with 8 analog channels out)....you can find them reasonably priced used now. The E28 was audio bliss for me for a while until I got the Oppo 205...which now plays them directly off the SSD drives.

Multichannel analog-output DACs are now as extinct as the dodo and a lot of them are not great quality... but these Canadian built models (and possibly the Octo Pro) are definitely the exception.

 

[richardm]

Multichannel analog-output DACs are now as extinct as the dodo and a lot of them are not great quality... but these Canadian built models (and possibly the Octo Pro) are definitely the exception.

Perhaps 4-5 different models of USB "sound cards" with the CM6206 chip and 7.1 outputs (unbalanced) are floating around on Ali, eBay, Amazon, etc for $15-35. I'm guessing most are terrible but my fingers are crossed at least one is "good enough" which I define as not noticeably worsening the already-mediocre and antiquated CM6206.
16-bit/48kHz max and "only" 96db S/N but that's fine for me. The extra 12-14db from a quality part would either slot in at the top where my ears are already bleeding or down at the bottom underneath my home's noise floor.

The trick is figuring out which one is worthy. The 5.1 variant in the blue anodized box found use long ago as a cheap-as-chips measuring device, seemed to be accurate enough, and they're still available on Ali. Haven't turned up much on 7.1 units.

 

[RoedeBaer]

I stumbled over this unit when looking for a surround processor, preamplifier, AVR or any other replacement for my old Marantz SR6007 AVR.
The UD951C comes with 3x ES9023P DACs and is sold at aliexpress ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007458787699.html ).


It‘s design is ugly as hell, reminding me of an old 1980s CB radio, but at least it‘s small enough to hide it inside an old shoe box if needed

The clou is: The UD951C not only has stereo outputs like most streaming devices/DACs, but delivers full analog 5.1 RCAs (on the downside it is limited to 5.1 systems).

It therefore theoretically can be used as a surround processor having 3x HDMI (one with ARC), has digital inputs (1x optical, 1x coaxial, 1x USB) as well as one analog input via RCA. It also handles Bluetooth AptX (as far as I understand) and can pass trough 4k/60hz video.

The second clou is, there is also a PRO version using the ES9038PRO DAC which also has replaceable Op-amps. So the PRO version is clearly designed for the more enthusiastic listeners.

Unfortunately the PRO version is not availabe right now (if not in stock or discontinued I don’t know).


Since my Hifi/Home Cinema system is 4.1 anyway, without the plan of adding any more channels to it in the future, also since I already have active front speakers and want to drive the passive backs via a higher quality stereo amp rather than one of 11 AVR internal amps, I was thinking about getting a UD951PRO and use it as an AVR replacement. Also as a file streamer (I don’t use online streaming services) and a DAC replacement.

I have no needs of any kind of surround upscaler or video functions. The latter can also be done by my TV or by the video streaming device. In fact I just need a sourround decoder which decodes the surround signal into separate signals, which I then can pass on to a high quality DAC and/or to a high quality amplifier.

I have no idea about the quality of the UD951C, but the existence of the PRO version makes me somewhat optimistic. So I ordered the only now available standard version with the ES9023P and will see if it does the job and if the sound quality can compete with my old Marantz SR6007 AVR at least.

If you guys are interested I will keep you up to date.

Cheers, Roede

 

[AresLuna]

Perhaps 4-5 different models of USB "sound cards" with the CM6206 chip and 7.1 outputs (unbalanced) are floating around on Ali, eBay, Amazon, etc for $15-35. I'm guessing most are terrible but my fingers are crossed at least one is "good enough" which I define as not noticeably worsening the already-mediocre and antiquated CM6206.
16-bit/48kHz max and "only" 96db S/N but that's fine for me. The extra 12-14db from a quality part would either slot in at the top where my ears are already bleeding or down at the bottom underneath my home's noise floor.

The trick is figuring out which one is worthy. The 5.1 variant in the blue anodized box found use long ago as a cheap-as-chips measuring device, seemed to be accurate enough, and they're still available on Ali. Haven't turned up much on 7.1 units.

This is indeed a cheap way to get multichannel audio playback but the performance is completely mediocre. In my search for a solution to replace my old SACD physical disc players i happened to test one of those cheap boxes a few years ago and the performance was terrible.

I also tested a Terratec Aureon 5.1 USB MKII and a Sound Blaster X-FI USB Surround Pro 5.1 which also does 96KHz if i remember correctly. I liked the output from the SB X-Fi USB but still it was worse than my Yamaha DVD-S1700 player.

If anyone wants a simple solution to listen to some multichannel audio, then maybe yes, but to my ears those chinese usb sound cards have nothing to do with audio quality and that thing is reflected on their price apparently.

I stumbled over this unit when looking for a surround processor, preamplifier, AVR or any other replacement for my old Marantz SR6007 AVR.
The UD951C comes with 3x ES9023P DACs and is sold at aliexpress ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007458787699.html ).


It‘s design is ugly as hell, reminding me of an old 1980s CB radio, but at least it‘s small enough to hide it inside an old shoe box if needed

The clou is: The UD951C not only has stereo outputs like most streaming devices/DACs, but delivers full analog 5.1 RCAs (on the downside it is limited to 5.1 systems).

It therefore theoretically can be used as a surround processor having 3x HDMI (one with ARC), has digital inputs (1x optical, 1x coaxial, 1x USB) as well as one analog input via RCA. It also handles Bluetooth AptX (as far as I understand) and can pass trough 4k/60hz video.

The second clou is, there is also a PRO version using the ES9038PRO DAC which also has replaceable Op-amps. So the PRO version is clearly designed for the more enthusiastic listeners.

Unfortunately the PRO version is not availabe right now (if not in stock or discontinued I don’t know).


Since my Hifi/Home Cinema system is 4.1 anyway, without the plan of adding any more channels to it in the future, also since I already have active front speakers and want to drive the passive backs via a higher quality stereo amp rather than one of 11 AVR internal amps, I was thinking about getting a UD951PRO and use it as an AVR replacement. Also as a file streamer (I don’t use online streaming services) and a DAC replacement.

I have no needs of any kind of surround upscaler or video functions. The latter can also be done by my TV or by the video streaming device. In fact I just need a sourround decoder which decodes the surround signal into separate signals, which I then can pass on to a high quality DAC and/or to a high quality amplifier.

I have no idea about the quality of the UD951C, but the existence of the PRO version makes me somewhat optimistic. So I ordered the only now available standard version with the ES9023P and will see if it does the job and if the sound quality can compete with my old Marantz SR6007 AVR at least.

If you guys are interested I will keep you up to date.

Cheers, Roede

Now THAT would be awesome!

I would be veeery interested if it can output multichannel hi-res flac and dsd audio files. We all know that the DSD playback would almost certainly be possible after an on the fly DSD--->PCM conversion, maybe at 88.2KHz as usual.

So, yes please, i would love a feedback from this when you get the unit. Maybe a small overall presentation if you have the time to do this.

I am mainly interested in:

1) Sound quality especially when playing back hi-res audio.

2) Noise / hiss when nothing is playing

3) If the player can handle 5.1 DSD playback.

A few photos would be also much welcome!!




Now, i found a very interesting approach to getting a high quality audio playback for my DSD/SACD collection (so many physical discs that are deteriorating and need to be ripped to be able to listen to them without breaks or clicks/crackling during playback).

I was looking for a used Exasound e28 or a Topping DM7 as mentioned earlier. After a lot of research i found out that there were a handful of Audio Interfaces that could do up to 24bit/192KHz with respectable DACs inside and an even more respectable design overall.

I had the opportunity to listen to a Topping DM7 which is a DSD capable DAC with unbalanced connections to my amplifiers, at my own audio system with my own speakers at my own place. Despite the fact that due to the balanced --> unbalanced connection that led to a decreased output level, the audio quality from the Topping was remarkable indeed!!!! What a great DAC, unbelievable!!

But the seller (whom i happen to know personally) asked for 500 euros which i found a little bit on the high side but it would solve my problems once and for all.

Then i was wondering how an old Firewire interface like a Focusrite or an M-Audio capable of 24/192 PCM would sound? How much worse would it be compared to the Topping?

Then i found a used M-Audio with multi-channel balanced/unbalanced outpupts for just 15 EUROS!!!! I had a refurbished tiny USFF PC lying around, with a powerful enough Intel i5 4570 with Windows 7 SP1 and a low profile PCI-E Firewire 1394 card with the latest Texas Instruments pci-e chipset (TI chips are known to be highly compatible with audio interfaces and not dropping any packets that would lead to crackles and pops or even blue screens).

Firewire audio interfaces are known to be a real pain, but i thought that the worst case scenario would be the one where i would have thrown away 15 euros for the M-Audio. In the end the loss would be negligible if this didn't work as i wanted. But i was completely surprised when i heard the audio coming out from this audio interface.

After careful setting of both my software players and the correct settings on the M-Audio i was able to get a wonderful sound (DSD ---> PCM 24/176.4) from it. At the same time i was able to do some A-B comparisons with the Topping DM7. I found the differences so subtle that would not justify the ~500 euros difference for me.

So for now, i am happily listening to all my multichannel hi-res audio files through the M-Audio.

 

[Scytales]

As I am a firm advocate of multichannel audio, I am very much interested in your thread.

It seems to my that this Foepoe is a more advanced flavor of the various Chinese audio extractors with S/PDIF and/or HDMI or USB inputs that can be found on AliExpress or other Online stores.

There currently is an offer of this Foepoe on E-bay under another brand with an inside view of the device: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/184131807677

It is reasonable to guess that the objective performance of such devices might be in the ballpark of this one, with lesser capabilities, that have been tested par Lalaland for ASR: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hdmi-audio-extractor-some-measurements.38590/

 

[AresLuna]

A very interesting excel from the NativeDSD website.

NativeDSD Database

docs.google.com

Some devices like some older exasounds and Oppo universal players are missing from the list, but overall it is almost as comprehensive as needed and an indicator of the situation around multichannel hi-res audio palyback. Keep in mind that flawless DSD playback including gapless playback is what we really want. I remember the Oppos for example couldn't do gapless playback due to hardware / firmware limitations which ruins the concept of works such as Medtner's Piano Concerto 1 or Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon and many others....

But what do we see on the list above? Very important facts......and disappointing i must say.....

1) From all the 588 devices listed, only 25 of those support DSD 5.1 multichannel playback which is less than 5% even if we include the omitted devices like the exasound e28 and the Oppo BDP-105.

2) Out of those 25 devices that do support DSD multichannel, 12 of those are Universal Disc Players (Blu ray / DVD/ CD/ SACD etc.) that support DSD files up to 5.1 multichannel BUT they output through HDMI which still needs a decoder (a multi-channel DSD capable AV receiver). If this is converted to LPCM it is a lot easier to pass the signal to almost all AV receivers. Also out of those 25 devices, we see 1 Sony receiver capable of partially multichannel DSD playback.

3) So the rest 12 devices (plus the missing exasounds) which are the DACs we can use to connect to our equipments as sources (through six discrete balanced or unbalanced connections) cost thousands!!!!! Only the discontinued Topping DM7 was the only affordable choice at around $600 retail offering only balanced connections though with the known advantages and disadvantages concerning connectivity options. The options would be a used exasound or DM7 as already mentioned before or the respectable Octo.


All these conclusions mean that multichannel audio is a niche interest ONLY for a handful of people nowadays. Really, let's question this, imagine a random group of 100 people.

How many of those really listen to music at home?
How many of those do own a pretty good audio system?
How many of those do prefer to listen to exquisite recordings instead of the mainstream platforms like Spotify and Youtube (and the rest) ?
How many of those have invested in a multichannel audio setup?
And how many of those do want to use their setup for multichannel hi-res audio playback and prefer listening their beloved music in such formats?
And last but not least, how many of those do really search for and invest on multichannel audio albums since the availability is so limited?

The demand for multichannel audio is apparently extremely low for companies to design products with this capability (primary or secondary capability) and have abandoned multichannel solutions. Even AV receivers nowadays don't include 5.1/7.1 unbalanced inputs as in the past which makes older receivers with this capability very precious to me!

Final conclusions:

EVERYTHING in life is getting so freakin expensive, EVERYTHING, day by day, nothing can escape this new order of things, including listening to music!!!! Multichannel hi-res audio in 2004 (SACD / DVD-Audio universal players) would cost $250 for an entry level BUT decent player with pure DSD path inside without cheap conversions (although conversions if done correctly are not a bad thing!!!!) . In 2024 the device to do this costs MANY multiples of that which prohibits people from experiencing that multichannel audio magic.

So let's review our options:

Option 1: Don't listen to multichannel audio!!! (nah, i am just kidding )

Option 2: Change job or find a way to get the money needed for a kickass DAC!!! (am i kidding now? i don't know but it is an interesting option )

Option 3: There are cost effective solutions like using a player like my favourites JRiver or Foobar to convert to PCM and use any audio gear even a cheap soundcard to connect to a 5.1 inputs AV receiver and enjoy the music but with limited quality and possible troublesome noise floors and bad THD+N results, but at least you get multichannel.

Option 4: Buy used equipment like exasound DACs, Octo, or DM7 for a real value for money and a great listening experience without much of a compromise.

Option 5: Use respectable audio interfaces (some can do wonders through ASIO and conversion to PCM 24bit/176.4KHz) ----> This is what i did and i couldn't be more than happy with the results. Much higher quality than consumer audio cards.

Option 6: The Chinese could save the day once again with a device that the ones we are examining, especially if they would bring back the PRO version with the fully DSD capable ESS Sabre chip and with the proper firmware to handle multichannel DSF/DFF files in a "pure" DSD path.

Option 7: ????

I don't know of other options. Do you? If yes, the contribution would be valuable.

 

[Scytales]

I'm afraid fans of multichannel audio recording, which incidentally is the single most important improvement over 2 channels stereo and is known as such by the recording industry for almost a century, are at the mercy of the hardware manufacturers.

It should be mentioned that some manufacturers have done the job : Philips and Sony with their SA-CD proposal and corresponding hardware at all price points, the DVD-Audio camp, DTS with its CD DTS format. Some smaller companies, often derided for being high-price audiophile oriented, have more or less done the job also : Esoteric, Linn, Luxman, McIntosh, Mark Levinson, Primare ... But all of them seems to have renounced, save for some very small companies, which still support multichannel audio with hard to procure source or amplification devices (the Italians of AM Audio, Exasound, Okto Research).

Interresting devices can be found in the homecinema market, but there are often not ideal for music listening for ergonomic reasons or plain inedaquate design philosophy (multichannel HC devices often cuts costs by making some surround channels inferior by design compared to front channels whereas with proper multichannel music recordings, all channels do have the same importance and should be treated equally to each others). And the old problem of having to pay for video features a music lover often have no use to is putting a brake to the buy of HC devices.

I hope the light will -again- come from China and generally Asia, where there are both (a) a potentially huge market for multichannel audio and (b) the engineering and manufacturing capacities, either of them are seldom found in Europe or even in the USA nowadays, except perhaps at very high costs.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

A very interesting excel from the NativeDSD website.

NativeDSD Database

docs.google.com

Some devices like some older exasounds and Oppo universal players are missing from the list, but overall it is almost as comprehensive as needed and an indicator of the situation around multichannel hi-res audio palyback. Keep in mind that flawless DSD playback including gapless playback is what we really want. I remember the Oppos for example couldn't do gapless playback due to hardware / firmware limitations which ruins the concept of works such as Medtner's Piano Concerto 1 or Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon and many others....

But what do we see on the list above? Very important facts......and disappointing i must say.....

1) From all the 588 devices listed, only 25 of those support DSD 5.1 multichannel playback which is less than 5% even if we include the omitted devices like the exasound e28 and the Oppo BDP-105.

2) Out of those 25 devices that do support DSD multichannel, 12 of those are Universal Disc Players (Blu ray / DVD/ CD/ SACD etc.) that support DSD files up to 5.1 multichannel BUT they output through HDMI which still needs a decoder (a multi-channel DSD capable AV receiver). If this is converted to LPCM it is a lot easier to pass the signal to almost all AV receivers. Also out of those 25 devices, we see 1 Sony receiver capable of partially multichannel DSD playback.

3) So the rest 12 devices (plus the missing exasounds) which are the DACs we can use to connect to our equipments as sources (through six discrete balanced or unbalanced connections) cost thousands!!!!! Only the discontinued Topping DM7 was the only affordable choice at around $600 retail offering only balanced connections though with the known advantages and disadvantages concerning connectivity options. The options would be a used exasound or DM7 as already mentioned before or the respectable Octo.


All these conclusions mean that multichannel audio is a niche interest ONLY for a handful of people nowadays. Really, let's question this, imagine a random group of 100 people.

How many of those really listen to music at home?
How many of those do own a pretty good audio system?
How many of those do prefer to listen to exquisite recordings instead of the mainstream platforms like Spotify and Youtube (and the rest) ?
How many of those have invested in a multichannel audio setup?
And how many of those do want to use their setup for multichannel hi-res audio playback and prefer listening their beloved music in such formats?
And last but not least, how many of those do really search for and invest on multichannel audio albums since the availability is so limited?

The demand for multichannel audio is apparently extremely low for companies to design products with this capability (primary or secondary capability) and have abandoned multichannel solutions. Even AV receivers nowadays don't include 5.1/7.1 unbalanced inputs as in the past which makes older receivers with this capability very precious to me!

Final conclusions:

EVERYTHING in life is getting so freakin expensive, EVERYTHING, day by day, nothing can escape this new order of things, including listening to music!!!! Multichannel hi-res audio in 2004 (SACD / DVD-Audio universal players) would cost $250 for an entry level BUT decent player with pure DSD path inside without cheap conversions (although conversions if done correctly are not a bad thing!!!!) . In 2024 the device to do this costs MANY multiples of that which prohibits people from experiencing that multichannel audio magic.

So let's review our options:

Option 1: Don't listen to multichannel audio!!! (nah, i am just kidding )

Option 2: Change job or find a way to get the money needed for a kickass DAC!!! (am i kidding now? i don't know but it is an interesting option )

Option 3: There are cost effective solutions like using a player like my favourites JRiver or Foobar to convert to PCM and use any audio gear even a cheap soundcard to connect to a 5.1 inputs AV receiver and enjoy the music but with limited quality and possible troublesome noise floors and bad THD+N results, but at least you get multichannel.

Option 4: Buy used equipment like exasound DACs, Octo, or DM7 for a real value for money and a great listening experience without much of a compromise.

Option 5: Use respectable audio interfaces (some can do wonders through ASIO and conversion to PCM 24bit/176.4KHz) ----> This is what i did and i couldn't be more than happy with the results. Much higher quality than consumer audio cards.

Option 6: The Chinese could save the day once again with a device that the ones we are examining, especially if they would bring back the PRO version with the fully DSD capable ESS Sabre chip and with the proper firmware to handle multichannel DSF/DFF files in a "pure" DSD path.

Option 7: ????

I don't know of other options. Do you? If yes, the contribution would be valuable.

Nice review and summary but, still, old news.

 

[Carznmusic]

This thread is getting old but in case anyone is still paying attention, here's my (non-technical) review of the RH-899x. My purpose for buying one was simply to facilitate HDMI inputs, Bluetooth streaming and digital audio files playback through my older Denon AV-1802 HTR which sounds wonderful but has none of those modern capabilities. Here's a quick summary:
- Audio quality: very good IMO, no hiss or hum, sounded very clear and spacious (through the Denon)
- Video quality: very good, no glitches, nice clear, strong image
- Remote control: worked as expected
- Inputs performance
a. Bluetooth: very good, no problems identified, linked easily and streamed well from iphone
b. USB: played mp3 and wav files (I think 96 kbps, maybe 128, mostly from CDs I had ripped years ago), file name displayed but no album cover art (but files might be corrupted). Sounded very good, random play function worked.
c. hdmi: the unit did provide 5 channels of output through RCA jacks but did not properly convert the audio stream from a firestick (that's all I tried since that's what I use for streaming to my old Sony, non-smart TV). What I got was something like 4-channel stereo (?) with little to no center channel. In fairness, it only claimed to handle DTS and I have no idea whether that's compatible / capable for the audio stream from the firestick - but apparently not (my knowledge of digital formats / processing is minimal).

Overall it failed to meet my approval as I wanted to feed its 5 channel output into the Denon “external in” RCA jacks, so I returned it.

My overall take on this unit is, I think it’s a useful and worthwhile interface for bluetooth and USB- or SD card- (which I did not test) sourced files but NOT 5 channel home theater audio. I don’t think it actually decodes and produces 5 channels, it apparently just synthesizes multi-channel somehow - not in a pleasing way. I thought this unit might make a nice barebones multichannel preamp in a budget HTR system by running it through a 5 channel amp or powered speakers - but alas, no worthwhile processing happening here.

Final thought, I should have tested its digital outputs (coax, optical) and let the Denon process the multichannel audio which it does well enough. If I had done that I may have decided to keep it just for bluetooth and file playback.

 

[RoedeBaer]

Overall it failed to meet my approval as I wanted to feed its 5 channel output into the Denon “external in” RCA jacks, so I returned it.

Thank you very much for sharing your impressions on this unit as I meanwhile cancelled plans to buy and test one myself and got me a new Marantz (Cinema 40) instead.
What you described of not decoding 5.1 signals properly is the excact the use case I wanted to try this unit for: Feeding my old AVR's analog inputs via the unit's analog outputs and thus encoding some modern surround formats my old AVR wasn't capable of. Plus maybe ending up with an even better sound quality via the unit's better DACs. Everything else would've been unimportant to me.

So I can finally rest assured I made the right decision with not buying one of those

Thanks again and have a nice weekend
Roede

 

[Carznmusic]

Congrats on the Marantz, looks really sweet.

Gotta say I’ve learned so much here, thanks to all for your contributions.

One more point, the complexity of higher end receivers / pre-processors is crazy! Look at the array of inputs / outputs on the Marantz for example - does anyone use all that? But i guess when you spend that $$$ you want to know you’ve got all the bases covered. Happy listening!

 

[Carznmusic]

Congrats on the Marantz, looks really sweet.

Gotta say I’ve learned so much here, thanks to all for your contributions.

One more point, the complexity of higher end receivers / pre-processors is crazy! Look at the array of inputs / outputs on the Marantz for example - does anyone use all that? But i guess when you spend that $$$ you want to know you’ve got all the bases covered. Happy listening!

My bad that Marantz is not that complex, i forgot it was a receiver and had all those powered speaker connections! (I only glanced at the photos, should have held my comments)

 

[Carznmusic]

Hello, I have been using an RH-899x as described further up this post.
I use a PC with HDMI out into the DAC And then the return HDMI into a monitor. There is a toslink from the TV box and various other peripherals. I have another PC with a pcm coax. Output primarily for redundancy. Left and right channels feeding into a QUAD 44 that has been extensively modernised And that feeds to QUAD 405RM that are vertically bi- amped . The Centre Channel is a home-made active speaker system. Using an extron Power amp converted to mono and surrounds by a lovely old Sony ta-ax2. This is further fed into another extron stereo power amp to boost the rears. Also, there is a lf bass speaker To control and balance all this I use four stereo volume controls Left and right front, Centre, rear surrounds and bass.
The mods to the quads mean there is silence during running; no hiss or hum. My main speakers are B&W matrix threes.
Using the PC / foobar2000 to play DSD iso files or multi channel Flac files I am more than impressed. The sound is nothing short of stupendous. The sound is crystal clear there is zero distortion it sounds warm luxurious involving very three dimensional. It is impossible to tell where the sound is actually coming from because the stage is so wide it is perfectly possible to place the instruments exactly as they are. It is so revealing, for example when listening to the song remains the same you can literally hear the floor where John Bonham drums are sitting on vibrating.
I have a large SD DSd collection and thoroughly enjoyed the immersive experience from these recordings. I have no one favourite but lots of Billy Cobham, war of the worlds, the Beatles Abbey Road The Moody Blues and jean Michelle jarre and tubular bells all explode with absolute incredible multichannel vitality. All from this little box the RH899X.. Even my brother who is critical said it would not sound better had you spent £20,000 on this system. The RH899X is very versatile, has many inputs. HDMI coax toslink analog so card usb etc. The remote controls the volume and the inputs. If it was trash, I would’ve canned it long ago. Occasionally I search for a more mainstream device which is how I found this forum and without spending thousands or making sacrifices on inputs yet to find anything. Realistically, there’s no reason to replace the RX899. Purists may it’s not pure DSD it’s dsd converted to pcm or whatever but I use my ears. I invite anyone to come and listen to what I’m hearing and criticise so for £150. This box does the job.

I’m interested to hear more about what type of content you are enjoying so much through this unit, I’m thinking maybe I should have kept it for use with music only and feed audio from movies etc through my htr. Have you listened to movies through it? I got terrible results when i tried.

 

[Carznmusic]

I stumbled over this unit when looking for a surround processor, preamplifier, AVR or any other replacement for my old Marantz SR6007 AVR.
The UD951C comes with 3x ES9023P DACs and is sold at aliexpress ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007458787699.html ).


It‘s design is ugly as hell, reminding me of an old 1980s CB radio, but at least it‘s small enough to hide it inside an old shoe box if needed

The clou is: The UD951C not only has stereo outputs like most streaming devices/DACs, but delivers full analog 5.1 RCAs (on the downside it is limited to 5.1 systems).

It therefore theoretically can be used as a surround processor having 3x HDMI (one with ARC), has digital inputs (1x optical, 1x coaxial, 1x USB) as well as one analog input via RCA. It also handles Bluetooth AptX (as far as I understand) and can pass trough 4k/60hz video.

The second clou is, there is also a PRO version using the ES9038PRO DAC which also has replaceable Op-amps. So the PRO version is clearly designed for the more enthusiastic listeners.

Unfortunately the PRO version is not availabe right now (if not in stock or discontinued I don’t know).


Since my Hifi/Home Cinema system is 4.1 anyway, without the plan of adding any more channels to it in the future, also since I already have active front speakers and want to drive the passive backs via a higher quality stereo amp rather than one of 11 AVR internal amps, I was thinking about getting a UD951PRO and use it as an AVR replacement. Also as a file streamer (I don’t use online streaming services) and a DAC replacement.

I have no needs of any kind of surround upscaler or video functions. The latter can also be done by my TV or by the video streaming device. In fact I just need a sourround decoder which decodes the surround signal into separate signals, which I then can pass on to a high quality DAC and/or to a high quality amplifier.

I have no idea about the quality of the UD951C, but the existence of the PRO version makes me somewhat optimistic. So I ordered the only now available standard version with the ES9023P and will see if it does the job and if the sound quality can compete with my old Marantz SR6007 AVR at least.

If you guys are interested I will keep you up to date.

Cheers, Roede

Did you pull the trigger? Results?

 

[meta1984]

Ayino hd590 and 590 pro