SACD Player + miniDSP Flex

[ClearHearing]

I currently don't have an SACD player or any SACDs, but I just ordered the Sony UBP-X800M2 Blu-Ray player. However, I can send it back unopened if I get negative feedback on it here.

Right now I have a miniDSP Flex with balanced analog inputs, for a phono amp / turntable, and the usual three digital inputs. I have a computer plugged into the USB port. I use Dirac Live for room correction. My recollection is that the miniDSP does the room correction internally using PCM at 48 kHZ.

The obvious approach is to output the SACD from the Sony UBP-X800M2 as PCM on SPDIF. But this sounds like I might be downconverting the SACD / DSD to CD quality. Would it be best to limit the Sony UBP-X800M2 output to 48 kHZ, to match how the miniDSP Flex operates internally?

Also, if I am exporting PCM on SPDIF from the UBP-X800M2, should I just play the CD layer on a hybrid SACD and skip the entire SACD / DSD thing?

Is there a better option to get closer to DSD / SACD quality? Either a better SACD player or a better way to configure the output / input relationship between the Sony UBP-X800M2 and the miniDSP Flex?

 

[Sokel]

There's nothing you can choose that Flex won't adjust to its own rate.
So just get a CD player to play the CD layer and you're good.

 

[ClearHearing]

There's nothing you can choose that Flex won't adjust to its own rate.
So just get a CD player to play the CD layer and you're good.

Huh, that is disappointing. Is there a cheap CD player with SPDIF or TOSLINK output that you would recommend?

 

[Sokel]

Huh, that is disappointing. Is there a cheap CD player with SPDIF or TOSLINK output that you would recommend?

It's being a long time I had a look so I wouldn't risk a recommendation.
Let's ping @NTTY to it, he's the master of CDPs.

 

[unpluggged]

Is there a better option to get closer to DSD / SACD quality?

Please define "DSD / SACD quality".

 

[ClearHearing]

Please define "DSD / SACD quality".

I guess I am assuming that a pure DSD file with the same mastering as a lossless CD-quality PCM file will sound better. Otherwise, SACDs would offer nothing over CDs. I don't have any technical knowledge to back this up, though.

 

[JRR]

Please define "DSD / SACD quality".

SACD/DSD64 is roughly equivalent to 96/24PCM. While 44.1 is ubiquitously touted as being beyond what is needed for transparent play back it does reduce the flexibility on the mastering end of things. Because of this and the fact that SACD is uniquely marketed at audiophiles they are often mastered better than their red book equivalent. This is especially true with older recordings.

To OP: do not be concerned with the fact that MINIDSP processes the signal in 96/24. That is the equivalent of the program material anyways. By all means do go ahead with your idea as it unlocks a lot of great masterings. Also, don’t overlook the multi channel music available on the format.

 

[terryforsythe]

Please define "DSD / SACD quality".

Here is what Wikipedia says, but take it with a grain of salt; Wikipedia is not always accurate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD

 

[unpluggged]

SACD/DSD64 is roughly equivalent to 96/24PCM.

I was asking the OP. I'm just trying to understand what are they trying to achieve and whether they understand that there is no audible differences between Red Book and DSD once every other variable (listening conditions, reconstruction filters, volume levels, and source material) has been taken care of.

 

[ClearHearing]

SACD/DSD64 is roughly equivalent to 96/24PCM. While 44.1 is ubiquitously touted as being beyond what is needed for transparent play back it does reduce the flexibility on the mastering end of things. Because of this and the fact that SACD is uniquely marketed at audiophiles they are often mastered better than their red book equivalent. This is especially true with older recordings.

To OP: do not be concerned with the fact that MINIDSP processes the signal in 96/24. That is the equivalent of the program material anyways. By all means do go ahead with your idea as it unlocks a lot of great masterings. Also, don’t overlook the multi channel music available on the format.

Thanks for the advice. It seems that if you use Dirac Live like I do, miniDSP processes at "only" 32bit/48 kHz. So do you think the SACD layer of a disc will be useful for me?

 

[ClearHearing]

I was asking the OP. I'm just trying to understand what are they trying to achieve and whether they understand that there is no audible differences between Red Book and DSD once every other variable (listening conditions, reconstruction filters, volume levels, and source material) has been taken care of.

I was not aware of that. So you basically think SACD is a scam and the DSD file provides no discernible benefit over a CD quality PCM file?

 

[terryforsythe]

I was asking the OP. I'm just trying to understand what are they trying to achieve and whether they understand that there is no audible differences between Red Book and DSD once every other variable (listening conditions, reconstruction filters, volume levels, and source material) has been taken care of.

Then it would help if your original question was more direct.

 

[terryforsythe]

I was not aware of that. So you basically think SACD is a scam and the DSD file provides no discernible benefit over a CD quality PCM file?

A claim with SACD is dynamic range of 120dB, which is higher than a 16-bit CD without dithering. With dithering CD supposedly can get a perceived 120dB dynamic range. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

Again, it is Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[JRR]

Thanks for the advice. It seems that if you use Dirac Live like I do, miniDSP processes at "only" 32bit/48 kHz. So do you think the SACD layer of a disc will be useful for me?

Yes. The secret sauce is in the mastering and multi channel layer.

 

[ClearHearing]

Yes. The secret sauce is in the mastering and multi channel layer.

1. By "mastering", you mean for the same hybrid SACD that there is different mastering for the two layers and that the SACD has better mastering?

2. By "multichannel" (I have only stereo speakers), you partially mean that the SACD transport/player will do a stereo downmix that possibly has more detail and dynamic range than the pure stereo mix?

 

[JRR]

1. By "mastering", you mean for the same hybrid SACD that there is different mastering for the two layers and that the SACD has better mastering?

2. By "multichannel" (I have only stereo speakers), you partially mean that the SACD transport/player will do a stereo downmix that possibly has more detail and dynamic range than the pure stereo mix?

1: that depends on the individual disc. Some are different some are not.

2: sacd only discs have one layer, Hybrid stereo discs have two, hybrid multichannel discs have three layers. No downmixing needed. In a multidisc player like the sony x800 You can typically set the order/hirearchy of what it plays.

 

[ClearHearing]

Focusing on SACDs from Mobile Fidelity and Analogue Productions, do you think that the mastering of the PCM/CD layer is often different from the mastering of the DSD/SACD layer?

It looks like the multichannel layer of hybrid multichannel SACDs is not relevant for me with my current stereo setup.

 

[ClearHearing]

Just to check, no one here thinks that getting a SACD player and exporting analog to my miniDSP will produce better sound quality than exporting CD-quality PCM?

 

[Keith_W]

I was not aware of that. So you basically think SACD is a scam and the DSD file provides no discernible benefit over a CD quality PCM file?

Nah there certainly are benefits to SACD. Such as DRM (i.e. copy protection). Recording studios love it! But no benefits for you.

MiniDSP must do its convolution in PCM. The only convolver I am aware of that can do convolution in DSD is HQPlayer, but it is computationally intensive. So intensive that some people build gamer-style computers with powerful CPU's and graphics cards to run it maxed out.

Would you be able to hear a difference between SACD and 16 bit PCM? It is highly doubtful.

 

[terryforsythe]

Just to check, no one here thinks that getting a SACD player and exporting analog to my miniDSP will produce better sound quality than exporting CD-quality PCM?

No. The miniDSP converts analog to digital for processing. All you would be doing is adding additional ADC and DAC steps.