Galliardist
Major Contributor
Now, you show some respect to your elders!
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
SoundArtist ("BBC") LS3/5A Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
respice finem
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2021
- Messages
- 1,869
- Likes
- 3,843
Practically, and ecologically: this thing will probably be better than the plastic cr@p I usually see in such places.
And at a certain age, you only hear so much... None of my elders had to end up there yet, thankfully...
Horses for courses.
MattHooper
Master Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2019
- Messages
- 9,762
- Likes
- 16,586
There are so many variations over the years with different versions, clones, tolerances and ageing that people who think get THE LS3/5 sound can get quite different "intepretations" of it.
The measurements of Stereophile in the past had also shown that:
BBC LS3/5a loudspeaker 1989 Measurements
Sidebar 2: 1989 Measurements I estimated the voltage sensitivity (using 1/3-octave pink noise centered on 1kHz) and measured the change of impedance with frequency, while the nearfield low-frequency response of each speaker was assessed with a sinewave sweep to get an idea of the true bass...www.stereophile.com
Falcon "Gold Badge" LS3/5a loudspeaker Measurements
Measurements, from May 2021 (Vol.44 No.5)
BBC LS3/5a loudspeaker Harbeth Measurements
Sidebar 2: Harbeth Measurements The LS3/5a's impedance magnitude and phase are shown in fig.1. Dropping to 6 ohms only in the top treble octave, it shouldn't give the partnering amplifier any hernias. The sealed box is tuned to 76Hz, the impedance reaching 31.2 ohms at that frequency. There is a...
Yup. As opposed to the punishing minimum impedance of 1.7 ohm for this knock-off, as JA says of the Spendor version: "The impedance drops below 8 ohms only below 40Hz and in the lower midrange, and stays above 10 ohms for much of the audioband." and that despite the low sensitivity "..its plot of impedance magnitude and electrical phase against frequency (fig.1) indicates that it is a kind load for the partnering amplifier to drive."
My tube amps seem to have no issues driving the Spendor S3/5s (or, at least, none that I find detrimental).
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
It won't be a problem for well designed amplifiers, even at high output levels. But expect some AVRs to throw in the towel. But it's unlikely a speaker of that size will be driven loud and long enough to cause a decent amplifier to a) get too hot or b) trip the OC protect. 1.7R is still a long way from a short.
ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Directivity is a measure of how well the energy of on and off axis match.
If they match well then when you apply PEQ/EQ you get a smooth & even increase or decrease at the affected frequency.
So if there is a 3db dip on axis and there is also a relative 3db dip off axis at the same frequency, and you bump that frequecy up 3db the whole thing is now smooth.
If the on and off axis don't track that is not the case.
You may be adding say 3db to get flat on axis but what if off axis it was already 'flat' there or even had a slight peak. Then adding 3 db for on axis would yeild a big peak off axis.
In 2023/2024 with PEQ I'd much rather have great directivity and uneven frequency response since it can be corrected 'correctly'. VS so-so directivity and less frequency response deviation. Ideally both are covered though applying PEQ based on anechoic/Klipple measurements can easily correct frequency response when the on and off have similar energy deviations(but can not and will not correct directivity errors)
This might seem complex but it really is simple. Read Toole's book or some of the many articles available in the hobby sphere.
Audioholics covers some of this well.
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part I
Audioholics’ speaker reviews often contain detailed measurement graphs. In this article, we explain frequency response and the set of curves known as the 'Spin-O-Rama' to help you pick better product.
www.audioholics.com
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part II
The waterfall plots and polar maps often seen in Audioholics' speaker reviews are colorful and visually interesting, but what can they really tell us about a loudspeaker's performance?
www.audioholics.com
There are other speakers with this quality. In fact all in @ least in part of the frequency response spectrum. That is why in each review when you see the post made by one of the DSP folks there are often major benefits in the predicted response, score and rating. There are also zones that can not be corrected due to poor directivity(phase issues/comb filtering/various edge diffraction/unusual driver behaviors/certain types of crossover compromises, ect)
Last edited:
Galliardist
Major Contributor
Er, this one's a modern monstrosity, even if it is dressed in Grandpa's morning suit.
Maybe the small size of the involved midbass driver ? And some pure luck regarding the shape of the baffle and crossover piont
If the drivers works properly? Measure their impedance separately and a separate measurement of thier fr response. Then it could be a DIY project to design a crossover circuit for them .
Or maybe the scammers that build these sourced leftover car audio drivers that could explain the impedance
Or maybe the scammers that build these sourced leftover car audio drivers that could explain the impedance
Thanks but I understand what directivity is and have read Toole. I was just wondering how they could get that so right whilst getting everything else so wrong.Directivity is a measure of how well the energy of on and off axis match.
If they match well then when you apply PEQ/EQ you get a smooth & even increase or decrease at the affected frequency.
So if there is a 3db dip on axis and there is also a relative 3db dip off axis at the same frequency, and you bump that frequecy up 3db the whole thing is now smooth.
If the on and off axis don't track that is not the case.
You may be adding say 3db to get flat on axis but what if off axis it was already 'flat' there or even had a slight peak. Then adding 3 db for on axis would yeild a big peak off axis.
In 2023/2024 with PEQ I'd much rather have great directivity and uneven frequency response since it can be corrected 'correctly'. VS so-so directivity and less frequency response deviation. Ideally both are covered though applying PEQ based on anechoic/Klipple measurements can easily correct frequency response when the on and off have similar energy deviations(but can not and will not correct directivity errors)
This might seem complex but it really is simple. Read Toole's book or some of the many articles available in the hobby sphere.
Audioholics covers some of this well.
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part I
Audioholics’ speaker reviews often contain detailed measurement graphs. In this article, we explain frequency response and the set of curves known as the 'Spin-O-Rama' to help you pick better product.
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part II
The waterfall plots and polar maps often seen in Audioholics' speaker reviews are colorful and visually interesting, but what can they really tell us about a loudspeaker's performance?
There are other speakers with this quality. In fact all in @ least in part of the frequency response spectrum. That is why in each review when you see the post made by one of the DSP folks there are often major benefits in the predicted response, score and rating. There are also zones that can not be corrected due to poor directivity(phase issues/comb filtering/various edge diffraction/unusual driver behaviors/certain types of crossover compromises, ect)
These style speakers have a rep for a certain sound. Don't people buy these style b/c they like the sound - the sound that even on the originals and the licensed ones - isn't anything near flat or accurate? And I think that was intended at the BBC.
Most people don't look at measurements - they simply think something "sounds good" - even if it is highly inaccurate.
If you show them it's not accurate, they won't care.
"Yes, there's a touch of nasality in the upper midrange, the treble is less smooth than, say, the Paradigm or Dynaudio, and the upper bass is less well defined than audiophiles now expect from even inexpensive speakers. But when it comes to accuracy and stability of stereo imaging and sheer purity of midrange reproduction, the tiny BBC-designed speaker is still a contender."
www.stereophile.com
the above includes links to several measurements of some of the more well known variants.
Most people don't look at measurements - they simply think something "sounds good" - even if it is highly inaccurate.
If you show them it's not accurate, they won't care.
Signature sound[edit]
Similar to sealed-box speakers of similar size, the 3/5A has little or no low bass, but the design reinforced its lower register by a boost at around 160 Hz, giving the subjective impression that the speaker is more bass-rich.[7][10][15] It has a gently rising frequency response above 5kHz,[14] leading reviewers to notice the sound being a little bright at the treble registers, or that the speakers "reproduce the high-end roughness of solid-state amplifiers mercilessly" thus suggested partnering with valve amplification would be advantageous.[16][17][18] A slight nasal quality in the midrange has also been noted in the earlier versions.[3][10][18] The accuracy and stability of its stereo imaging and its clean midrange reproduction are also appreciated qualities.[10][17] J. Gordon Holt suggests that the quality was "comparable to that from Quad Electrostatics, at far lower cost and with added bonuses of slightly smoother high end, better stereo imaging, a broader listening area".[18] John Atkinson suggests in Stereophile that the LS3/5A is ideally suited to the reproduction of program having a limited dynamic-range requirement, for example chamber music;[16] he said that the LS3/5A "has never boogied and never will; it's just too polite ever to cut the mustard on rock, or even straightahead jazz""Yes, there's a touch of nasality in the upper midrange, the treble is less smooth than, say, the Paradigm or Dynaudio, and the upper bass is less well defined than audiophiles now expect from even inexpensive speakers. But when it comes to accuracy and stability of stereo imaging and sheer purity of midrange reproduction, the tiny BBC-designed speaker is still a contender."
BBC LS3/5a loudspeaker
These diminutive little sleepers have been available in the US for quite some time but have attracted little attention because (1) they have never really been promoted and (2) they are just too small to look as if they could be worth $430 a pair.
www.stereophile.com
Do any of us truly understand directivity or Toole?
Could it be random?
Or does the enclosure shape the directivity so much, the drivers don't have a large influence?
i understand what directivity is but that's not the same as understanding itDo any of us truly understand directivity or Toole?
Could it be random?
Or does the enclosure shape the directivity so much, the drivers don't have a large influence?
As for understanding Toole's book I'm reminded of the old joke:
'Dear Charles Atlas - I have finished your course. Please send me my muscles.'
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Messages
- 2,920
- Likes
- 4,871
Given this is only visually a LS3/5A, perhaps @amirm should change the title to "fake LS3/5A" or "LS3/5A lookalike" because 1) it is not an LS3/5A in anything other than shape, and 2) some of the contributors to this thread are not reading it properly and commenting as if this is representative of the original BBC 70s speaker or the "licensed" modern replicas.
I agree. Showing up fake tat for what it is, is not 'Myth-busting.'
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14,109
- Likes
- 31,621
My guess is that there's essentially nothing of the LS3/5a spec. "cloned" in this little "horrortone" box -- not unlike the parade of amplifier, preamplifier, and HP amp "clones" sold on Amazon, eBAY, and Aliexpress that bear absolutely no resemblance to the circuitry of which they're ostestensibly clones.
Yup. Beat me to it!
box -- not unlike the parade of amplifier, preamplifier, and HP amp "clones" sold on Amazon, eBAY, and Aliexpress that bear absolutely no resemblance to the circuitry of which they're ostestensibly clones. Yup. Beat me to it!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14,109
- Likes
- 31,621
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14,109
- Likes
- 31,621
BadAudioAdvice
Active Member
These SoundArtist LS3/5a have had quite a number of reviews (mostly/nearly all positive), and in all the reviews they've been positioned as a budget LS3/5a. And in many of the reviews they have been compared to the other, more expensive, modern replicas.
Please don't read this as me defending the speakers - they are junk. I sent them to Amir because I was so disappointed with them, and wanted some objective measures to either validate my hunch, and hopefully steer other people away from these speakers.
That said, I'm not sure if they should be called fake. Because most subjective reviewers find them relatively similar to other LS3/5a models.
Similar threads
