Schiit Vidar Amplifier Review

[tvrgeek]

+/- 3 dB. Double or half. We are talking sound.

A tiny bit concerned the Vidar may be over to the detail side vs the engaging warmer sound, But planning a Bifrost front end, so a complement? Basically, I am not loving any amp out there I can afford. In short, problem is very few small good basic amps. Most small amps are integrated, most basic bigger. So many are chasing numbers, not sound.

This is sending me back to re-evaluate my MOSFET build and see what I have learned since I built it and what next steps I left out. For sure I could at least double the outputs. I don't remember, but there was a good reason I put in a driver stage. Might replace the rail resistors to the IPS and VAS with chokes. ( Pi filter) It should get a soft start. I picked up some mu-metal to make a bit of a shield. Swap the big caps for banks. Some of the protection I put in may not be needed. It has been a while, have to re-learn Spice.

 

[Ataraxia]

Anyone here compare Vidar to Benchmark AHB2?

 

[tvrgeek]

I have not found much subjective tests on the Benchmark or Bryston, the two I would guess are the actual benchmarks in the 100W range.
From what the Schiit guys say, the Vidar leans to the clinically clean side, but not edgy. Subjective reviews either dismiss it as cheap and complain about the heat sinks being sharp, or fall all over it. I don't believe either. I actually believe Schiit more. I have never seen a bad comment on the Benchmark. ( over three times the price, Bryston more like 4)

Benchmark test specs are tops, but that is only the simple parameters we know how to measure into simple numbers. If that was all there was to it, all half decent amps would sound the same. Recent subjective reviews* suggest the C289 NAD, Stark, March, and Exposure to basically have no sonic signature. That is what I expect from the Benchmark and Bryston, but unless one could do good clean blind AB testing, hard to know. I do know, a lot of amps are so bad I can tell the difference in a big-box showroom. Rotels sound lifeless. Krell was harsh. Arcam maybe too warm. A grain of salt on that as they were al integrated and used their internal DAC, which can vary a lot. The Moon and Atoll sounded close to identical. When given two basically good amps, but one with a touch more even order distortion, almost all subjective reviewers will pick the higher distortion. Very few have the training to identify the reason for the deference. Nose floor I think is over-rated for a speaker amp, but high order harmonics are under-rated due to their tendency to cause tweeter breakup. What causes the feeling of space and energy? I wish I knew and I am sure Amirm could put a number on it. Problem is, what I hear and what you hear may be different.

More to the price point, compare the Vidar to Emotiva, C268, March P225, Marantz MM7025 or Outlaw. Who is the sub $1000 / 100W champ? It 'aint the Parasound 2125 I can assure you. Yea, a sub 1K amp roundup. That's what we need! Hi-Fi on Social Security ( Sorry, if you are in school, put your ear buds in and go away as you are probably already half deaf. )

* Before I put any credence in a subjective review, I watch/read as much of the author as I can to see if their views track +/- personal bias, to what I have heard. Many years ago, I followed the big rags, Stereophile, etc, and could pretty much filter the reviewers with the added filter of the back page ad. Some of the online U-tube reviews are actually useful. A lot are total trach of course. Most online lists are just re-publiched lists from some one else and it is clear they never had their hands on the equipment, let alone the detail measurements provided herein or listening. The same handful of major brands are always tops even when I know they stink.

Hmmm. Should subjective reviewers get their hearing tested every year and post the results on their site? I could hear 22K when I was 22, but now only 18 and barely. Most my age more like 14 or 15 unless they went to too many Who concerts stoned and clubbing. Many who served have lost a lot due to small arms. Car stereos have wiped out many peoples hearing. Insane levels. I used to live on a main street and cars would go buy louder in my house than my stereo was playing!

 

[Ataraxia]

I have not found much subjective tests on the Benchmark or Bryston, the two I would guess are the actual benchmarks in the 100W range.
From what the Schiit guys say, the Vidar leans to the clinically clean side, but not edgy. Subjective reviews either dismiss it as cheap and complain about the heat sinks being sharp, or fall all over it. I don't believe either. I actually believe Schiit more. I have never seen a bad comment on the Benchmark. ( over three times the price, Bryston more like 4)

Benchmark test specs are tops, but that is only the simple parameters we know how to measure into simple numbers. If that was all there was to it, all half decent amps would sound the same. Recent subjective reviews* suggest the C289 NAD, Stark, March, and Exposure to basically have no sonic signature. That is what I expect from the Benchmark and Bryston, but unless one could do good clean blind AB testing, hard to know. I do know, a lot of amps are so bad I can tell the difference in a big-box showroom. Rotels sound lifeless. Krell was harsh. Arcam maybe too warm. A grain of salt on that as they were al integrated and used their internal DAC, which can vary a lot. The Moon and Atoll sounded close to identical. When given two basically good amps, but one with a touch more even order distortion, almost all subjective reviewers will pick the higher distortion. Very few have the training to identify the reason for the deference. Nose floor I think is over-rated for a speaker amp, but high order harmonics are under-rated due to their tendency to cause tweeter breakup. What causes the feeling of space and energy? I wish I knew and I am sure Amirm could put a number on it. Problem is, what I hear and what you hear may be different.

More to the price point, compare the Vidar to Emotiva, C268, March P225, Marantz MM7025 or Outlaw. Who is the sub $1000 / 100W champ? It 'aint the Parasound 2125 I can assure you. Yea, a sub 1K amp roundup. That's what we need! Hi-Fi on Social Security ( Sorry, if you are in school, put your ear buds in and go away as you are probably already half deaf. )

* Before I put any credence in a subjective review, I watch/read as much of the author as I can to see if their views track +/- personal bias, to what I have heard. Many years ago, I followed the big rags, Stereophile, etc, and could pretty much filter the reviewers with the added filter of the back page ad. Some of the online U-tube reviews are actually useful. A lot are total trach of course. Most online lists are just re-publiched lists from some one else and it is clear they never had their hands on the equipment, let alone the detail measurements provided herein or listening. The same handful of major brands are always tops even when I know they stink.

Hmmm. Should subjective reviewers get their hearing tested every year and post the results on their site? I could hear 22K when I was 22, but now only 18 and barely. Most my age more like 14 or 15 unless they went to too many Who concerts stoned and clubbing. Many who served have lost a lot due to small arms. Car stereos have wiped out many peoples hearing. Insane levels. I used to live on a main street and cars would go buy louder in my house than my stereo was playing!

Nice writeup, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm looking at an amp to match with miniDSP SHD or similar and Vidar feels lie a good option. But of course all options interest me hence the question about Vidar - Benchmark comparison. I'm glad to know your impression about the Parasound 2125, that kind of stuff helps me. I agree, you summarized that 1k roundup bunch very well.

 

[tvrgeek]

If you were in the Piedmont, I'd make you a heck of a deal on the 2125, but then you would not like me.

Of course, the Vidar is on the same backorder as most Schiit products. 6 to 8 weeks. So if you go for it, call them first. Actually good for me so I can rebuild my old amp before I put out any money.

I would love to hear someone's objective "sounds like" review of the March amps. Seems several of the newest class D amps have reached the "no sound of their own" level. If so, it's a heck of a deal.

 

[LTig]

+/- 3 dB. Double or half. We are talking sound.

+/- 3dB equals to +100% / -50%. Taking away 100% of something leaves you 0% which is nothing (silence in audio).

 

[tvrgeek]

I just said that. Not at all relevant to the sound character of the Vidar. Is it warm, bright punchy, laid back, or did they succeed in having none at all, kind of like a Benchmark for three times the price?

+/- 3dB equals to +100% / -50%. Taking away 100% of something leaves you 0% which is nothing (silence in audio).

 

[tvrgeek]

Been reading up on current feedback designs. An entire different set of problems from voltage feedback. Bottom line would seem to be an advantage in slew rate. Schiit claims an advantage in reducing the effects of Beta droop. Much to understand from a geek standpoint. For everyone else, how it sounds is all that matters. Or more significantly, if it does not sound. This is totally different from the Quad current dumping which precedes CFA by a decade. It too claims to reduce beta droop.

 

[Ataraxia]

Been reading up on current feedback designs. An entire different set of problems from voltage feedback. Bottom line would seem to be an advantage in slew rate. Schiit claims an advantage in reducing the effects of Beta droop. Much to understand from a geek standpoint. For everyone else, how it sounds is all that matters. Or more significantly, if it does not sound. This is totally different from the Quad current dumping which precedes CFA by a decade. It too claims to reduce beta droop.

I'm still looking for an external amp to pair with a future miniDSP purchase, probably FLEX. My Emotiva BasX A100 sounds very very good driving my LS50 Metas via PC (Tidal) and Schiit Modi 3+ DAC fed USB. This is nearfield about 46" triangle.

I'd rather stay somewhat budget and class A/B for my next external amp which will be a midfield living room type setup. I do wonder how bad the mumming is from the Vidar if you get one that hums even after tightening the internal bolts.

 

[tvrgeek]

Just found out the old Threshold and later Nak Stasis were current dumping. I believe the latter were both done by Mr. Pass. Anyway, the old Nak PA-5 was always on my wish list. I wonder. Maybe I should be re-capping one of those? Not sure, but maybe Rolland did too.

Likewise, there were several highly respected current feedback amps. It looks like they both are harder to design and about any fool can read Cordell and Self to design a voltage feedback amp. ( from the quality of some on the market, a lot of fools did)

Budget: Marantz MM7025, Atoll MA100, Monoprice X2, or the amp I am currently not liking at all, Parasound 2125. If you like your Emotiva?

 

[Ataraxia]

Just found out the old Threshold and later Nak Stasis were current dumping. I believe the latter were both done by Mr. Pass. Anyway, the old Nak PA-5 was always on my wish list. I wonder. Maybe I should be re-capping one of those? Not sure, but maybe Rolland did too.

Likewise, there were several highly respected current feedback amps. It looks like they both are harder to design and about any fool can read Cordell and Self to design a voltage feedback amp. ( from the quality of some on the market, a lot of fools did)

Budget: Marantz MM7025, Atoll MA100, Monoprice X2, or the amp I am currently not liking at all, Parasound 2125. If you like your Emotiva?

Except I am wondering if the Vidar would sound better to me. Maybe just stick with Emotiva and try BasX A2. Some people don't like the Emotiva sound. My only other reference is my Yamaha A2080 AVR. I'm having the typical "what if" upgrade thoughts.

Part of me wants to step up to AHB2.

 

[tvrgeek]

Everything but my wallet wants a Benchmark. I could argue with that, but the wife said no too. Atoll, Exposure, March, NAD C298 , Stark, Azur 851, are all in the " no sound of their own" category as best I can tell from using enough "bias filters" on the subjective reviewers. "Strait wire with gain" has always been the goal, but in blind testing, people tend to prefer less clean amps. That the Emotivia has a sound has pushed me away from trying one, though a friend back in Maryland ran a mixing studio and he could not say enough about them.

One review of the NAD was funny as he could not find any sonic attributes to use. I don't think the smaller NAD is quite as good, but tempting to get one from Crutchfield and If I don't like it, send it back.

 

[Ataraxia]

Everything but my wallet wants a Benchmark. I could argue with that, but the wife said no too. Atoll, Exposure, March, NAD C298 , Stark, Azur 851, are all in the " no sound of their own" category as best I can tell from using enough "bias filters" on the subjective reviewers. "Strait wire with gain" has always been the goal, but in blind testing, people tend to prefer less clean amps. That the Emotivia has a sound has pushed me away from trying one, though a friend back in Maryland ran a mixing studio and he could not say enough about them.

One review of the NAD was funny as he could not find any sonic attributes to use. I don't think the smaller NAD is quite as good, but tempting to get one from Crutchfield and If I don't like it, send it back.

Contrary to the theme of this forum, a forum which I enjoy because regardless we really just all like audio, I too believe amplifiers have a sound.

That sound seems to show up in less than perfect measurements but oodles of people fall all over liking those amps and their intentional distortions.

I have really only heard my Yamaha and Emotiva. If the Emotiva has a sound (it did not measure real well) it is still very clean and transparent to me.

So I'd be interested to hear the "straight wire with gain" class A/B Benchmark. The NAD C298 did interest me too. Yes I'm Rabbit Holed.

 

[Heyu]

I wonder how it compares to the Parasound HCA 1500A.

 

[acetogen]

Contrary to the theme of this forum, a forum which I enjoy because regardless we really just all like audio, I too believe amplifiers have a sound.

That sound seems to show up in less than perfect measurements but oodles of people fall all over liking those amps and their intentional distortions.

I have really only heard my Yamaha and Emotiva. If the Emotiva has a sound (it did not measure real well) it is still very clean and transparent to me.

So I'd be interested to hear the "straight wire with gain" class A/B Benchmark. The NAD C298 did interest me too. Yes I'm Rabbit Holed.

I think that Schiit lets you try and amp for up to 30 days, but there is a stocking fee nevertheless.

 

[Ataraxia]

I think that Schiit lets you try and amp for up to 30 days, but there is a stocking fee nevertheless.

And it's shown in stock. It's still on my radar as I decide my next configuration for TV and 2 channel stereo.

 

[Count Dacula]

Is the Vidar Schiit's most competitive product? Most desirable....? Seems like maybe.

 

[Count Dacula]

Just found out the old Threshold and later Nak Stasis were current dumping. I believe the latter were both done by Mr. Pass. Anyway, the old Nak PA-5 was always on my wish list. I wonder. Maybe I should be re-capping one of those? Not sure, but maybe Rolland did too.

Likewise, there were several highly respected current feedback amps. It looks like they both are harder to design and about any fool can read Cordell and Self to design a voltage feedback amp. ( from the quality of some on the market, a lot of fools did)

Budget: Marantz MM7025, Atoll MA100, Monoprice X2, or the amp I am currently not liking at all, Parasound 2125. If you like your Emotiva?

I consider my Parasound 2125 to be my only "bad" AV purchase ever. Coming from my orig owner ADCOM 545-II, I read a few reviews and specs, thinking the 2125 would replace it...and it did for a while. It wasn't until I was juggling around some equipment a year or two later that I hooked up the ADCOM again, and really I was blown away.

The Parasound started having problems with the speaker relays, so I got the Vidar and threw the Parasound on a pile 6-7 years ago ....not again picking it up until 2 weeks ago to get it serviced and install it with some giant NiB B&Ws I just got from my wife's uncle, circa 1991.

The Vidar on Q350s renders a nice musical experience. While I have no intention of changing out the Vidar I don't actually think the Parasound will suffice in the future. I don't really care enough to sell it for the megar $350 or so it's worth, but I hate having unused equipment laying around. My choices being to retire the Vidar down to the back-up system with the B&W (once I figure out the internal short in one!) Then I could buy any amp I wanted for at home main SS, with the compact Q350s.

At this moment, I don't see any clear reason to replace the Vidar. I'm just trying to make the most of the gear i already have. That means matching up six different speaker and amp combos. I actually have a STASIS NAK Receiver 2 running Q150s, which sounds nice. Also have a old Denon 2ch and Sony ES 2ch, all of which are getting used to one degree or another now. Bottom line is the Vidar is a step up from the amps I mentioned. Not a bad option for the money, esp if you don't want to deal with vintage or repairs for 5 years.

 

[TonyJZX]

I wonder how it compares to the Parasound HCA 1500A.

i have a model of a similar age to this and am under no illusion that 20yrs has passed

btw. theres a Vidar 2

i assume the XLR is only for mono blocking? which is... hmm for $850

 

[Bds3151]

Since hearing the Stereophile class A rated Exposure 2010s amps, I'm wondering what specs make a meaningful difference? For example, the Exposure amp does not have great S/N ratio (68DB) however sound very good.