Nope. Search here for a thread about intersample overs by @ayane.
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/intersample-overs-in-cd-recordings
0.8dB extra? I think we can neglect that as a red herring in the argument.
Nope. Search here for a thread about intersample overs by @ayane.
Just mark in red in my posting where I was wrong, please.
Ah, I see. This is what Gary isn't addressing.
Since the noise floor is spread across the frequency spectrum, the value at one frequency dominating in the region where our ear is perhaps less sensitive or the music content is absent in that region does not require the lows at another frequency to be above it to hear it. And it does not have to be simple additive depending on our ear sensitivity to specific frequencies.
So if I my noise floor is dominated by an earthquake rumble (which is known to happen in my parts) in low frequencies, I can happily ignore it without having to raise my music to enjoy it ... unless my music also has an earthquake rumble in it as part of the music. But if my floor noise is from a chainsaw murder going on nearby....
I can see both sides (not to say they are equivalent).
I do think floor noise could be in the region that interferes with music content but may not just be a linear addition on top of the noise floor depending on frequency, so not sure what the right resolution from a measurement perspective to this conflicting goals is. Will leave it to the experts to hash it out.
Here is an idea for how you can get an idea of what dynamic range you need with an easy to do exercise in Audacity. Anyone is welcome to point out flaws in this. It won't surprise me if this is all wrong.
1. Open some track of some music
2. If it is 16 bit convert to 24 bit or 32 bit
3. Find a lively part and start a select a section starting in the middle of this
4. Use amplify tool to attenuate by something (suggest starting with -80dB or -85dB). My version of Audacity requires doing this in two steps, so I did -50dB and -35dB
5. Adjust volume of the louder beginning of the track to as loud as you can stand
6. See if you can hear the attenuated part
With headphones I can hear attenuation of about -85dB to -90dB depending on how loud I've set the volume. This was jazz so maybe I could do better with something else. Likewise it would be worse with more background noise listening with speakers. But my conclusion is that Amir's 96dB does not seem to be extreme overkill.
I'd like to disagree. Let me do a few statements and tell me please what you think of them:Pretty much all of it, the crest factor stuff is irrelevant as the methodology accounts for it.
Make it ten times. AFAIR @ayane measured up to 8 dB. You have to search here, not at benchmarks site.https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/intersample-overs-in-cd-recordings
0.8dB extra? I think we can neglect that as a red herring in the argument.
I'd like to disagree. Let me do a few statements and tell me please what you think of them:
- The methodology assumes a fixed crest factor of 12 dB (factor 4). Correct? If you don't agree please show the correct value and its calculation. I like to learn from my mistakes.
- Different types of music do have different crest factors. Correct?
- The methodology therefore does not account for all types of music. Correct? If not please explain. As I wrote I like to learn from my mistakes.
Make it ten times. AFAIR @ayane measured up to 8 dB. You have to search here, not at benchmarks site.
I can't find it at the moment, but I had a thread where I mixed pink noise in with music at various levels asking people to say when it disappeared over speakers at their normal listening levels. The most common answer was -70 db. With listening levels of 75-80 db SPL average and the profile of pink noise that seems fairly reasonable. Headphones are going to go deeper on this.Here is an idea for how you can get an idea of what dynamic range you need with an easy to do exercise in Audacity. Anyone is welcome to point out flaws in this. It won't surprise me if this is all wrong.
1. Open some track of some music
2. If it is 16 bit convert to 24 bit or 32 bit
3. Find a lively part and start a select a section starting in the middle of this
4. Use amplify tool to attenuate by something (suggest starting with -80dB or -85dB). My version of Audacity requires doing this in two steps, so I did -50dB and -35dB
5. Adjust volume of the louder beginning of the track to as loud as you can stand
6. See if you can hear the attenuated part
With headphones I can hear attenuation of about -85dB to -90dB depending on how loud I've set the volume. This was jazz so maybe I could do better with something else. Likewise it would be worse with more background noise listening with speakers. But my conclusion is that Amir's 96dB does not seem to be extreme overkill.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-from-recording-to-listening-room.8205/page-2
Maybe just move this discussion to an old thread I started. Is 120 db dynamic range from recording to listening room possible?
Yes, it seems our communication is very bad. I miss a point and you cannot answer questions. Time for bed.You're still missing the point. The test is done with respect to peak digital. Hence the upper limit is defined. Crest factors are accounted for in the piece of music you chose to play to set your volume control. You can use different pieces of music and will get a different number, but all are relevant in your system. Best perhaps to chose the piece with the highest dynamic range and go from there.
Yes, it seems our communication is very bad. I miss a point and you cannot answer questions. Time for bed.
There is this thread, where you used white noise:I can't find it at the moment, but I had a thread where I mixed pink noise in with music at various levels asking people to say when it disappeared over speakers at their normal listening levels. The most common answer was -70 db. With listening levels of 75-80 db SPL average and the profile of pink noise that seems fairly reasonable. Headphones are going to go deeper on this.
I'd like to disagree. Let me do a few statements and tell me please what you think of them:
- The methodology assumes a fixed crest factor of 12 dB (factor 4). Correct? If you don't agree please show the correct value and its calculation. I like to learn from my mistakes.
- Different types of music do have different crest factors. Correct?
- The methodology therefore does not account for all types of music. Correct? If not please explain. As I wrote I like to learn from my mistakes.
That is it, and thank you for finding it.There is this thread, where you used white noise:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hat-level-is-noise-heard-in-your-system.1013/
Is that the one you're thinking of?
Unless it was something you posted on that other forum where some of us used to hang out. (Or other other forum, for some of you haha!)
Gun shots? I'm talking about music, at normal domestic listening levels.