PS Audio M700 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[cistercian]

It's not a terrible amp, but it's terribly overpriced. I'd like to compare it to a powerful crown amp in the same price range.

Even worse, you can buy more than 4 Crown 2502 amps for this price. It is grossly overpriced for sure.

 

[win]

It is grossly overpriced for sure.

True. Sorry to whoever bought this.

Maybe you can return it. I would.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'd like to address two things.

1/ You say you like to see 96db sinad minimum so that it can handle the entire dynamic range of CD at least.

So tell me. Under what circumstances in the real world are you able to reproduce 96db dynamic range? What is your listening room noise floor? What is the peak capable or tolerable sound pressure level in your listening room?

Instead please estimate what real world dynamic range your listening environment can support.

2/ This declared need for high power levels for typical loudspeakers. Please play some music on your own system at your normal loudish listening level (ie what would be the acceptable max under normal conditions for you) put a scope across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak voltage you see.

Convert this peak to an rms voltage and calculate the equivalent power into a nominal 8 ohm load (as the amplifier spec assumes).

Tell us that power.

Then get a 200 dollar amp that fullfills the need. If this amp is sold at 200 dollars, it will be highly recommended.

 

[cistercian]

No no see your system just isn't RESOLVING enough like Paul's is. That's why you can't hear how good it sounds, but trust his 70 year old ears.

Normally I don't like to lob insults but you should see the stuff they say about this forum over at the psaudio forum, Paul included.

The truth is hurty for snake oil salesmen. I am constantly horrified at some of the insanity I see on other sites. Cable break-in, power cords to
tune the sound, it is just insane.

 

[win]

Then get a 200 dollar amp that fullfills the need. If this amp is sold at 200 dollars, it will be highly recommended.

Allowances can be made for beautiful chassis and casework. I didn't only buy the topping d90 because it measures well, I also happen to think it's beautiful.

That said, this thing looks like a gateway desktop pc from 1994.

 

[DSJR]

Has anyone noticed the casework is very Schiit-like?

Not complaining but in a sub $/£1000 product it's cool, but for $3000 I'd expect something a little better myself if I had the money. I mean, even Naim use quite heavy castings for the front panels of their legacy stereo stuff at similar money and higher...

 

[win]

Has anyone noticed the casework is very Schiit-like?

Not complaining but in a sub $/£1000 product it's cool, but for $3000 I'd expect something a little better myself if I had the money. I mean, even Naim use quite heavy castings for the front panels of their legacy stereo stuff at similar money and higher...

It's hard to tell if it's made from plastic or just uninspired aluminum that looks like plastic

 

[win]

I mean you can't make this up

The results are nothing short of breathtaking. Liberate all the toe-tapping energy trapped in your media library. Plumb music’s subterranean depths as your system gives you more bottom end than you thought possible. Revel in rich layers of fine, full detail. Marvel at the deep, extraordinary, wall-to-wall soundstage. Control your loudspeakers as never before.

 

[cistercian]

The price of the Benchmark AHB2 is high dollar/watt but for the money you get reference grade
S/N and distortion figures. Whether or not you think it is worth the money the performance is epic grade.
The performance here is not. I cannot see the use case for this amp at this price.

 

[GaryMnz]

Define Real World Dynamic Range and why it matters.
Prove that #2 is a valid test for anything.

You entirely miss my points. Did you understand at all what I asked?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

McGowan used to be able to take the heat when called out on his marketing-driven gimmickry, but he's getting testy these days when something challenging is posted under one of his (usually inane, if not nonsensical) U-Toob videos. I recently posted something to the effect that the Sprout 100 would probably perform just well if the output stage had been built around one of the better -- but still dirt-cheap -- modern monolithic Class D chips rather than an ICEPower OEM module, but that they couldn't do that because some customer might crack open the case and see a big "jellybean" commodity IC behind their stylish "high-end" nameplate. When I went to edit what I'd written to fix a typo, U-Toob issued an error message because the comment has been deleted.

 

[cistercian]

McGowan used to be able to take the heat when called out on his marketing-driven gimmickry, but he's getting testy these days when something challenging is posted under one of his (usually inane, if not nonsensical) U-Toob videos. I recently posted something to the effect that the Sprout 100 would probably perform just well if the output stage had been built around one of the better -- but still dirt-cheap -- modern monolithic Class D chips rather than an ICEPower OEM module, but that they couldn't do that because some customer might crack open the case and see a big "jellybean" commodity IC behind their stylish "high-end" nameplate. When I went to edit what I'd written to fix a typo, U-Toob issued an error message because the comment has been deleted.

There seems to be a clear delineation between the solid equipment makers and those engaging in the use of flowery language
to grotesquely inflate prices. Outright quackery seems rampant too with the verbose crowd.

This site is the antidote to the ignorance and gullibility which is used by the quacks to separate money from their victims.
I think that arguments can be made for whether or not certain levels of distortion or noise are audible or not depending on use.
I am also excited to see the SOTA increase as well. By using valid tests I can choose exactly where I put my money in my system
for my performance goals. I like pro gear because the specs are presented and then you can make your choice...simple.
But as soon as people begin to wax eloquently about the magical qualities their device possess I know I am in the ripoff zone.

 

[Matias]

@amirm is there still time to measure a multitone? I assume it will have the rising noise floor distortion on high frequencies.

 

[MZKM]

I'd like to address two things.

1/ You say you like to see 96db sinad minimum so that it can handle the entire dynamic range of CD at least.

So tell me. Under what circumstances in the real world are you able to reproduce 96db dynamic range? What is your listening room noise floor? What is the peak capable or tolerable sound pressure level in your listening room?

Instead please estimate what real world dynamic range your listening environment can support.

2/ This declared need for high power levels for typical loudspeakers. Please play some music on your own system at your normal loudish listening level (ie what would be the acceptable max under normal conditions for you) put a scope across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak voltage you see.

Convert this peak to an rms voltage and calculate the equivalent power into a nominal 8 ohm load (as the amplifier spec assumes).

Tell us that power.

If you own a pair of 100dB sensitive speakers, you want the noise floor at low wattage to be very low, or else it becomes audible. The noise floor in your room at low frequencies is high enough, but at higher frequencies it can be very quiet.

If you own a pair of 80dB sensitive speakers, let’s say you get 2dB of room gain, but -8dB for sitting decently away (~12ft), this gives you 74dB. For movies you want to reach at least 100dB, so you need +26dB, or 400W into 8ohm (800W if talking 4ohm).
Most speakers can’t handle more than ~100Wb (hell, some cheaper drivers can’t even handle >20W), but I’ve seen ratings for 500W peak.

 

[Dudi]

I'd like to address two things.

1/ You say you like to see 96db sinad minimum so that it can handle the entire dynamic range of CD at least.

So tell me. Under what circumstances in the real world are you able to reproduce 96db dynamic range? What is your listening room noise floor? What is the peak capable or tolerable sound pressure level in your listening room?

Instead please estimate what real world dynamic range your listening environment can support.

2/ This declared need for high power levels for typical loudspeakers. Please play some music on your own system at your normal loudish listening level (ie what would be the acceptable max under normal conditions for you) put a scope across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak voltage you see.

Convert this peak to an rms voltage and calculate the equivalent power into a nominal 8 ohm load (as the amplifier spec assumes).

Tell us that power.

I can tell you my experience about it. The ambient noise level is about -92dBFs in my living room.

Despite this noise level there is clear difference between 16bit and 24bit resolution. 16bit sounds raw and lumpy at highs without DAC dithering on. Dithering hides resolution problem.

An another strange thing, when I tested my old Chord Qutest against new Matrix X-Sabre Pro, the differences were clear, audible, despite their 114 / 121 SINAD significantly under ambient noise level.

I don't know the reason, but it is what I hear.

My new order an Okto Research Stereo DAC, I would like to compare it with the Matrix when it arrives. SINAD is similar but THD (without noise) is very different, I'm curious about the difference, if it will be audible.

 

[Matias]

The ICEpower 700AS1 module has a voltage gain of 27.4 dB according to the datasheet, and this amplifier has a total of 30.4 dB of gain. So the "Analog Cell" blue box is only their proprietary +3 dB gain opamp adding their "special sauce" distortion to the sound.

With their new M1200 monos they went further and added a tube gain stage before the ICEpower 1200AS1 module for the same reason.

M700 inside.

 

[peng]

If you own a pair of 100dB sensitive speakers, you want the noise floor at low wattage to be very low, or else it becomes audible. The noise floor in your room at low frequencies is high enough, but at higher frequencies it can be very quiet.

I wish that is the case but unfortunately mine isn't that quiet at higher frequencies. Can REW, Omni mic and users please share you noise floor graphs please?

 

[restorer-john]

You entirely miss my points. Did you understand at all what I asked?

Unfortunately, they don't understand.

The same guys that think a clean 100W/ch will give them all the power they need, also think they can reproduce the full dynamic range of what CD is capable of in a normal listening environment. News flash: they can't even come close.

If people are going to bang on about needing a bare minimum of 96dB, they should also realize that their amplifiers will need to have a minimum of ~1500W/ch into a sensitive speaker (>91dB@1M/1W) to reproduce that range, even allowing for the quietest parts to disappear into the noise floor of their own (quiet) listening environment.

Basically, the amount of posturing bullsh#t in relation to this is astounding.

 

[peng]

The ICEpower 700AS1 module has a voltage gain of 27.4 dB according to the datasheet, and this amplifier has a total of 30.4 dB of gain. So the "Analog Cell" blue box is only their proprietary +3 dB gain opamp adding their "special sauce" distortion to the sound.

With their new M1200 monos they went further and added a tube gain stage before the ICEpower 1200AS1 module for the same reason.

M700 inside.

View attachment 77130

Wow, so they charged such a high price for "simplicity" design?

Almost forgot to ask, where was the lead (or cast iron as lead should have been banned) plate hidden?

 

[MZKM]

I wish that is the case but unfortunately mine isn't that quiet at higher frequencies. Can REW, Omni mic and users please share you noise floor graphs please?

View attachment 77132

The rise in response >6kHz seems pretty odd.