Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[popej]

1. It sounded too harsh in the higher mids for my taste. At least on my speakers.

IMO this depends on room correction, target curve and other tunings. Basically you get what you set.

2. Playing music with higher volume levels the music became more and more less dynamic the higher the volume plus the AVR seemed to reduce the volume by itself. It was not possible to break through a certain loudness level even when pushed the AVRs volume up to 0 dB.

You could at least check, if it went into protection mode. Or maybe you set 4 Ohm speakers? I guess, is too late to find the reason.

 

[Doodski]

@RoedeBaer. Are you using the surround sound feature in the receiver?

 

[Drunkinho]

Piega Premium 701 Wireless/Active

Strange choice if you ask me. Why active speakers if you are connecting them to the avr?

 

[MLaranjeiras]

I've had the LX 505 for a couple of weeks, but sent it back in the end because of mainly two reasons:

1. It sounded too harsh in the higher mids for my taste. At least on my speakers.

2. Playing music with higher volume levels the music became more and more less dynamic the higher the volume plus the AVR seemed to reduce the volume by itself. It was not possible to break through a certain loudness level even when pushed the AVRs volume up to 0 dB. This didn't only affect the built in amps but also the pre out levels. My main speakers are active and yet they wouldn't play at high volumes.

I encountered this behaviour mainly when listening to music, because when this happend vieweing films I was never sure if the lesser dynamic came from the Pioneer or from the movie's mix.

My old AVR is a Marantz SR6007 from 2013, so it is quite old by now and also far less powerful than the pioneer. But still it plays much more dynamic and powerful with my speaker setup.

I wasn't sure about the Pioneer's behaviour, but reading this test's conclusion seems to deliver a reasonable explanation.

I have This 503 since 2018. Use preout for stereo casual listening and a Mac Mini with Audirvana + Topping E50 for a more serious music experience. Before, i connected a 4 Ohms front speakers direct on it and it almost exploded after a blast on a movie, going to an error message. An Onkyo authorized service saved it. For a little apartment, it is more than suficient and, for the price I payed, I consider it a honest av receiver

 

[RoedeBaer]

IMO this depends on room correction, target curve and other tunings. Basically you get what you set.

This was in pure direct mode.

You could at least check, if it went into protection mode. Or maybe you set 4 Ohm speakers? I guess, is too late to find the reason.

I could have checked it, if I've had any clue there existed something like a protection mode. And yes, since I sent the unit back it is too late to check.

@RoedeBaer. Are you using the surround sound feature in the receiver?

Do you mean the upmixer? I've tried it and it did not sound bad, but I prefer listening to music in pure direct mode. For movies I don't like any surround upmixers nor effects, just the pure Dolby or DTS.

Strange choice if you ask me. Why active speakers if you are connecting them to the avr?

Why is this strange? I had passive fronts for years, now I bought active fronts. Mainly because they were on sale with 50% off. Secondly usually the amps of active speakers are designed/tuned to fit the exact speakers, so you have to invest a good buck to get an external amplifier which is far better than the built in.

The active Speakers are now connected to the pre outs of my AVR and the old fronts are now the backs powered by the AVR's internal amps. If I won't connect the active speakers to the AVR i couldn't listen to any surround sound.

Alternatively I'm also looking for a surround processor/pre amplifier plus an external stereo amp for the backs, but as for now these solutions come at a much higher cost than a new AVR (e.g. the Denon X8500HA or the Marantz SR8015 (which has either HDMI problems and a AKM DAC or no HDMI problems and a TI DAC nowadays)).

This btw. is why I'm here at your fine forum.

I have This 503 since 2018. Use preout for stereo casual listening and a Mac Mini with Audirvana + Topping E50 for a more serious music experience. Before, i connected a 4 Ohms front speakers direct on it and it almost exploded after a blast on a movie, going to an error message. An Onkyo authorized service saved it. For a little apartment, it is more than suficient and, for the price I payed, I consider it a honest av receiver

I in fact did set the Pioneer's speaker settings to 4 ohms because my older Piegas, which are now the backs, are 4 ohm speakers. I wouldn't expect any difficulties here, if the AVR offers some extra settings for different impedances.
For the active fronts I don't expect this setting to have any effect.


P.S.: I didn't think I would have to clarify this, but just in case here we go: I didn't mean to bash neither the Pioneer LX505 nor the Onkyo RZ50 nor anyone who has one of these units and has fun with them. I just wrote about a strange behaviour which let me return the unit and which maybe has it's roots in the described power limiting. But also maybe not. Maybe I just had a faulty one, maybe I just was too stupid to get it running correctly, In fact this was only my 8th amplifier esp. my 5th AVR to own. So I'm still pretty new to the subject.

 

[popej]

I in fact did set the Pioneer's speaker settings to 4 ohms because my older Piegas, which are now the backs, are 4 ohm speakers.

Then you have limited output power. If you tried to listen on high volume, then you got compression and distortion. Even active speakers could get some more distortions, when power amps were overdriven, but I'm not sure if it could be heard.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Isso foi em modo direto puro.


Eu poderia ter verificado, se eu tivesse alguma pista de que existia algo como um modo de proteção. E sim, já que enviei a unidade de volta, é tarde demais para verificar.



Você quer dizer o upmixer? Eu tentei e não soou mal, mas prefiro ouvir música no modo direto puro. Para filmes, não gosto de nenhum upmixer surround nem efeitos, apenas o Dolby ou DTS puro.



Por que isso é estranho? Eu tive fronts passivos por anos, agora comprei fronts ativos. Principalmente porque eles estavam em promoção com 50% de desconto. Em segundo lugar, geralmente os amplificadores de alto-falantes ativos são projetados/ajustados para se encaixar nos alto-falantes exatos, então você tem que investir um bom dinheiro para obter um amplificador externo que é muito melhor do que o embutido.

Os alto-falantes ativos agora estão conectados às saídas pré do meu AVR e os frontais antigos agora são os traseiros alimentados pelos amplificadores internos do AVR. Se eu não conectar os alto-falantes ativos ao AVR, não conseguirei ouvir nenhum som surround.

Como alternativa, também estou procurando um processador/pré-amplificador surround, além de um amplificador estéreo externo para os alto-falantes, mas, por enquanto, essas soluções têm um custo muito mais alto do que um novo AVR (por exemplo, o Denon X8500HA ou o Marantz SR8015 (que tem problemas de HDMI e um DAC AKM ou nenhum problema de HDMI e um DAC TI atualmente)).

Aliás, é por isso que estou aqui no seu excelente fórum.




Na verdade, eu configurei as configurações do alto-falante do Pioneer para 4 ohms porque meus Piegas mais antigos, que agora são os backs, são alto-falantes de 4 ohms. Eu não esperaria nenhuma dificuldade aqui, se o AVR oferecesse algumas configurações extras para diferentes impedâncias.
Para as frentes ativas, não espero que essa configuração tenha qualquer efeito.


PS: Não pensei que teria que esclarecer isso, mas só por precaução, aqui vamos nós: não tive a intenção de criticar nem o Pioneer LX505 nem o Onkyo RZ50 nem ninguém que tenha uma dessas unidades e se divirta com elas. Acabei de escrever sobre um comportamento estranho que me fez devolver a unidade e que talvez tenha suas raízes na limitação de potência descrita. Mas também talvez não. Talvez eu tivesse um com defeito, talvez eu tenha sido muito estúpido para fazê-lo funcionar corretamente. Na verdade, este foi apenas meu 8º amplificador, esp. meu 5º AVR para ter. Então, ainda sou bem novo no assunto.

My 503 has only 6Ohms and 8 Ohms options

 

[ryanmh1]

This was in pure direct mode.


I could have checked it, if I've had any clue there existed something like a protection mode.

I in fact did set the Pioneer's speaker settings to 4 ohms because my older Piegas, which are now the backs, are 4 ohm speakers. I wouldn't expect any difficulties here, if the AVR offers some extra settings for different impedances.

Never set a receiver to 4 ohm mode. The Audioholics reviews all tell you not to do this and why, as do many ASR reviews. You severely limit power by doing this. That mode exists solely to pass regulatory testing and does limit power. Has nothing to do with any protection circuit.

 

[RoedeBaer]

Never set a receiver to 4 ohm mode. The Audioholics reviews all tell you not to do this and why, as do many ASR reviews. You severely limit power by doing this. That mode exists solely to pass regulatory testing and does limit power. Has nothing to do with any protection circuit.

Seriously? That's really odd. Never heard about this before. But then again... well, if the manufacturer tells me to do so and the outcome is crap, I'll sent their unit back. No buy, not sorry.
Thank you for this hint!

 

[Drunkinho]

Never set a receiver to 4 ohm mode. The Audioholics reviews all tell you not to do this and why, as do many ASR reviews. You severely limit power by doing this. That mode exists solely to pass regulatory testing and does limit power. Has nothing to do with any protection circuit.

Check my thread on the LX305 "power issues".

Pioneer VSX-LX305 power usage issues

I have Pioneer VSX-LX305 and I've noticed something similar to the Amir results but during normal level of usage tests. Watching movies or listening to the music over Spotify connect at -40dB. After 25 minutes when watching movies there is that sound exactly as it is when you are powering on the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In a short. Looks like some hidden eco mode in this AVRs.
"After 25 minutes when watching movies there is that sound exactly as it is when you are powering on the AVR. I don't know how to call it.
I was wondering what it is and if it had any impact on the AVR performance. No sound dynamic, volume changes "visible" after this "click".
I've bought power monitoring socket and connected AVR through it. Guess what is happening after those 25 minutes and that "click" sound? I've marked time of this "click" sound with red circles on the screenshot from the power monitoring app.
Power usage goes down 50%. And that 25 minutes mark is consistant. Every time. No matter if when watching movies in 5.1 or listening music in 2.1 configuration."

If you want to pick on something it could be that "50%" but this is cherry picking. You should get the point.
To be more clear on the behaviour:
1 - Power on
2 - Power Off and Power on again
3 - Power consumption goes down - listening to the music in a 2.1 configuration at around -40dB or watching movies in 5.1 configuration
4 - Increasing volume to -15dB - power consupmtion goes up

 

[fadetoblackbs]

True. However, the much nicer audiophile grade ESS DACs tells me the RZ70/805 was always going to cater to a different crowd than the RZ50/505!

What DACs do the 505/805 have?
If the DAC from the 505 is not very good, does it make sense to "bridge" it using for example RCA cables from the TV or Bluray source to the AVR so that the "decoding" to an analog signal happens in the TV or Bluray and not in the DAC from the AVR?
Thanks =)

 

[MLaranjeiras]

What DACs do the 505/805 have?
If the DAC from the 505 is not very good, does it make sense to "bridge" it using for example RCA cables from the TV or Bluray source to the AVR so that the "decoding" to an analog signal happens in the TV or Bluray and not in the DAC from the AVR?
Thanks =)

Is waste time to look for a really good stereo sound coming from an AV receiver in my personal experience, of course. I wonder why someome plug a hi grade speaker on such devices to listen music.

What DACs do the 505/805 have?
If the DAC from the 505 is not very good, does it make sense to "bridge" it using for example RCA cables from the TV or Bluray source to the AVR so that the "decoding" to an analog signal happens in the TV or Bluray and not in the DAC from the AVR?
Thanks =)

The 505 maybe the same AKM AK4458 of my 503

 

[fadetoblackbs]

Is waste time to look for a really good stereo sound coming from an AV receiver in my personal experience, of course. I wonder why someome plug a hi grade speaker on such devices to listen music.

The 505 maybe the same AKM AK4458 of my 503

Well in my case I want to be able to run a Home Theatre and in some cases listen to music - if you have a better idea about to combine both scenarios, let me know please how to wire and combine each element of hardware =) O Brigado

 

[RoedeBaer]

What DACs do the 505/805 have?
If the DAC from the 505 is not very good, does it make sense to "bridge" it using for example RCA cables from the TV or Bluray source to the AVR so that the "decoding" to an analog signal happens in the TV or Bluray and not in the DAC from the AVR?
Thanks =)

As far as I know both the RZ50 and the LX505 have TI 1690 Burr-Brown DACs on board (as stated by youtube's ripewaveaudio channel).

Also I heard/read several times now that due to the design of an AVR most units do an analog->digital conversion anyway. So it's quite useless to feed an AVR via a high quality extern DAC analog signals for they would be converted to the AVR's DACs anyway. But I'm no engineer (at least not a digital one) so I can't verify this information.

 

[RoedeBaer]

Is waste time to look for a really good stereo sound coming from an AV receiver in my personal experience, of course. I wonder why someome plug a hi grade speaker on such devices to listen music.

For me I don't want to have two different sound systems. I only one living room and I like to listen to high quality music as well as to immersive movie sound. So I'm the typical Don Qichote trying to get most out of my AVR, hence I know it will never sound as good as a good analog stereo system. That's why I made my main speakers active ones, so they don't have to be powered by one of 13 internal amps of an AVR. But the whole thing turned out much more complex then I initially thought. Now I'm thinking about some high quality AV processor plus an external stereo amp for my sourrounds, instead of an AVR.

 

[popej]

I wonder why someome plug a hi grade speaker on such devices to listen music.

Because they like the result.

 

[kyuu]

Is waste time to look for a really good stereo sound coming from an AV receiver in my personal experience, of course. I wonder why someome plug a hi grade speaker on such devices to listen music.

Because despite the fact that we really want AVR manufacturers to do better in their measured performance, ultimately they are actually, by and large, more than adequate for most usages including listening to music in stereo. Also people with surround systems often don't want 10 different boxes, at significantly increased cost, to handle the same job for a largely inaudible improvement in performance.

 

[EWL5]

What DACs do the 505/805 have?
If the DAC from the 505 is not very good, does it make sense to "bridge" it using for example RCA cables from the TV or Bluray source to the AVR so that the "decoding" to an analog signal happens in the TV or Bluray and not in the DAC from the AVR?
Thanks =)

"The RZ50/505 use a Burr Brown PCM1690 for 8 main channels and BB PCM5101A on the remote channels.

The RZ70/805 uses 2, ESS ES9026PRO for the main channels and BB PCM5101A on the remote channels."

Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

P Where "prolonged" can be as little as 15 minutes: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html#:~:text=Noise%20above%2070%20dB%20over,sources%20can%20affect%20your%20hearing.&text=Sounds%20at%20these%20dB%20levels,t%20cause%20any%20hearing%20damage. And the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

My understanding is the Onkyo 7100, Pioneer 305, and Integra DRX3.4 uses the same PCM1690 as well!

The DAC in the 505 is good and I have no issues with the choice in this price segment!

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Well in my case I want to be able to run a Home Theatre and in some cases listen to music - if you have a better idea about to combine both scenarios, let me know please how to wire and combine each element of hardware =) O Brigado

I like a lot mine LX503 for its versatility and price. In search for a better stereo expericence, first I used its Front L/R Preouts to connect it to my Sansui amplifier. The result was better for my ears. The second step was to isolate stereo music listening from the Pioneer, as I commented before. I got one or two steps ahead.

Because they like the result.

Well, they are losing, as me in the begining, a great oportunity to a better level of clear benefit, not necessarelly spending much for that. You can trust it.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Because despite the fact that we really want AVR manufacturers to do better in their measured performance, ultimately they are actually, by and large, more than adequate for most usages including listening to music in stereo. Also people with surround systems often don't want 10 different boxes, at significantly increased cost, to handle the same job for a largely inaudible improvement in performance.

I dream with an AV receiver to have a great stereo performance, but they are very busy making a lot of things. The very expensive NAD T778 could be the one, but they say that it has a lot of issues and reliability is a major concern. ARCAM might be a bet, but they are expensive and with lots of software issues.