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Pioneer SP-C22 Review (Center Speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 6.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 41 32.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 70 54.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 7.0%

  • Total voters
    128

ROOSKIE

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@Dennis Murphy Is the crossover mod listed anywhere public? I'd like to try it if it is.
 

EL_PW

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I bought 2 of these about 1 year ago to use upended for stereo and was surprised that no one else was jumping on that band wagon. I see now I was ahead of my time. :D At the time you could get two of them for less than a pair of the stereo speakers in the same series. I was impressed with the sound quality for all types of music and also tried them as speakers for work Zoom calls for which they were just ok. Then sadly I knocked one over and it now has a slight hum at certain frequencies. But at $75 its a no brainer to replace. Just don't knock them over onto a hard surface while conducting the invisible orchestra like I did!
 

nastynick

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Actually, that mod was intended for the BS22 Monitor. I don't recall whether I every tried it with the center channel, and in any event a full crossover mod is really required to even things out.
@Dennis Murphy Is the crossover mod listed anywhere public? I'd like to try it if it is.
Seconded! I've seen several instances telling us you're busy Mr. Murphy, but I'm hoping you can direct us nascent enthusiast with a crossover designed for the SP-C22 + BC25TG15-04? Pretty Please :D.

I took OP's suggestion and am using a pair of these rotated onto their sides as stereo speakers for my TV. My wife cannot understand dialog out of these thus the need to mod them. If DM is not able to, does anyone else have crossover suggestions? I watched the video linked on page 4 or 5, he just replaced the stock components with audio quality stuff of the same value. I guess I'll do the same and add the Vifa tweeters for now. I'll also take @alex-z advice and brace the cabinet. Everyone is right the black plastic wood grain is hideous. I veneered mine with white oak and placed them on white oak stands, they're much more pleasant to look at now. Thanks Everyone.
 

alex-z

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Seconded! I've seen several instances telling us you're busy Mr. Murphy, but I'm hoping you can direct us nascent enthusiast with a crossover designed for the SP-C22 + BC25TG15-04? Pretty Please :D.

I took OP's suggestion and am using a pair of these rotated onto their sides as stereo speakers for my TV. My wife cannot understand dialog out of these thus the need to mod them. If DM is not able to, does anyone else have crossover suggestions? I watched the video linked on page 4 or 5, he just replaced the stock components with audio quality stuff of the same value. I guess I'll do the same and add the Vifa tweeters for now. I'll also take @alex-z advice and brace the cabinet. Everyone is right the black plastic wood grain is hideous. I veneered mine with white oak and placed them on white oak stands, they're much more pleasant to look at now. Thanks Everyone.

Are you running without a centre channel? Modding the C22 won't fix dialogue clarity if you don't have a centre channel. Even something cheap like the Emotiva C1+, Elac UC52, or SVS Prime Center channel all make a huge difference.

Replacing crossover components with items of the same value but higher quality is a waste. It is well proven that differences in capacitor and resistor quality are barely measurable, certainly not audible. Replacing iron core inductors with air core inductors does help, although frequency response can change if you don't match the inductors internal resistance.
 

nastynick

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Are you running without a centre channel? Modding the C22 won't fix dialogue clarity if you don't have a centre channel. Even something cheap like the Emotiva C1+, Elac UC52, or SVS Prime Center channel all make a huge difference.

Replacing crossover components with items of the same value but higher quality is a waste. It is well proven that differences in capacitor and resistor quality are barely measurable, certainly not audible. Replacing iron core inductors with air core inductors does help, although frequency response can change if you don't match the inductors internal resistance.
Thanks! Yes, I'm just using an old yamaha stereo receiver. I'm trying to fix dialog without spending much money due to having a newborn and a new job (read no income previously). I'd love to have 5.1 but I figure I should save for an atmos processor? Also I'm a total audio greenhorn so I have no idea what's worth spending money on. I guess I'll leave the crossover alone for the moment. But take your advice and brace the box. Should I just slap those Vifa tweeters in there too? I used to be a professional furniture maker so I can make beautiful things, but I broke my neck and back and had to find a less physical job. I'm looking forward to making a whole system with custom enclosures, driver kits and discrete amp components when I can afford them eventually.
 

alex-z

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Thanks! Yes, I'm just using an old yamaha stereo receiver. I'm trying to fix dialog without spending much money due to having a newborn and a new job (read no income previously). I'd love to have 5.1 but I figure I should save for an atmos processor? Also I'm a total audio greenhorn so I have no idea what's worth spending money on. I guess I'll leave the crossover alone for the moment. But take your advice and brace the box. Should I just slap those Vifa tweeters in there too? I used to be a professional furniture maker so I can make beautiful things, but I broke my neck and back and had to find a less physical job. I'm looking forward to making a whole system with custom enclosures, driver kits and discrete amp components when I can afford them eventually.

You definitely don't need save up for Atmos. Even a basic 3.1 or 5.1 setup is much better than 2.1 for movies/TV. You can find a lot of used AV receivers under $200, even some with HDMI 2.0. Old models from the pre-HDMI era can still handle a 5.1 signal, albeit a lossy signal over optical.

I would not swap the tweeter without tweaking the crossover, it will change the frequency response.

If you have that level of skill + tools, you could consider a whole new cabinet, with thicker walls, more absorption inside, and roundovers on the baffle edges. Reducing resonances + diffraction is a pretty straightforward way to improve sound quality. If you keep roughly the same baffle size and internal cabinet volume, the average frequency response should remain the same, but become smoother above 2500Hz. My initial suggestion of just adding bracing was for people uncomfortable with woodworking and only looking to spend $5-10 on improvement.
 

nastynick

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Thank you Alex-z. I can definitely make a nice enclosure for these drivers with your suggestions. So are there no eminet mods for the sp-c22?
 

Putter

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The following is what I have concerning the DIY mod for the Pioneer C22 center. It's been heavily edited so apologies if any part is incorrect or misleading.

I found a thread at Audiocircle on these speakers in which two Dennis Murphy mods are discussed. The lessor known one is to install the same vifa/peerless tweeter, but with just a 3.9 uf cap on the positive side of the tweeter at the crossover.

I did this with the center(c22) and also installed some one inch sonic barrier, Parts Express sells all of this stuff.

Anyway, with the tweeter, cap and sonic barrier, the center performance is markedly better. Previously the cabinet vibrations affected clarity and the dialogue at times. Also the stock tweeter can be a little inexact with some music I’ve noticed.
Could the center channel mod be as simple as adding the Vifa tweeter and a 3.9uF cap?
Dennis Murphy:
OK--I finally got (almost) enough information to model this, and although I'm not sure about the value of the tweeter parallel coil, as long as it's not higher than about .5 mH, you should be able to get acceptable results by removing and throwing away the old tweet, splicing in a 2 ohm resistor and a 3.9 uF cap to the wire leading to the positive terminal of the tweeter, and then attaching the end of that wire and the negative wire to the appropriate terminals of the new Vifa tweeter. The order of the resistor and cap doesn't matter, just so they're connected n line with each other. The highs won't be perfectly flat--they'll trend down about 4 dB before rising again, but the response should be good enough for the superior Vifa tweeter to improve the clarity of vocals. If you hate it, it's easy enough to undo unless you really did throw away the old tweeter.

Dennis Murphy:
Thanks Lary. Just so there isn't any confusion, the mod you implemented in the field is kind of a stop-gap version for people who already have the stock Pioneers. The modded version I sell has much more extensive revisions to the crossover, plus added sound treatment for the cabinet. I know Danny at GR research sells some good stuff--just for my own edification, which subs are you recommending and how much do they cost? thanks

20th February 2020,
33
paulster
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Now that Dennis has (sadly) had to get out of the speaker business, does anybody have the details for the SP-C22 center channel mod, or a lead on where to purchase a modified one?

I modified my SP-BS22-LR set some time ago and have been waiting to see when Dennis would make the center available again, but that's not going to happen now.

I'd really like to get a center voiced the same as the modified fronts.
20th February 2020,
#34
DreadPirate
diyAudio Member



Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Athens, GA
Dennis discusses the center mod here:
Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 314 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Basically, a 2ohm resistor and 3.9uF capacitor (he likes Audyn) on the + wire to the replacement Tymphany BC25TG15-04 tweeter.

I really like the Pioneer based Affordable Accuracy monitors. I also built the modified BR-1s and, quite honestly, I prefer the Pioneers.
The crossover mods move the woofer crossover point down 20% (larger L2-L1 combo), move the tweeter crossover point down 10% (larger L3), goes to 3rd order which not only sharpens the tweeter rolloff but also brings the woofer and tweeter phases close together around the crossover point, and finally brings the tweeter down a bit after 10 KHz. Woofer/tweeter sensitivity balance is unchanged.
View attachment 217747
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nastynick

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@Putter Oh man thanks so much for putting this together! Good stuff to sink my teeth into!

Shout out to @alex-z for helping me move past stereo in some dm's.
 
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