Just never found much use for the typical analog only integrated amp....at least not since the 70s. Kinda like having a handicap to start.
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(not that much) desperate manufacturer needing your advise
DSP is the way presently. I never voted for a integrated either. I think a entry level amp without the fancy casework would be a welcome addition and open sales for those that want the brand but not the price. 12 volt trigger, selectable 3 position gain, balanced input option or RCA option or both and mode LEDs.
You can skip the streamer as a first step. There are several (external) solutions available that work quite well.
A DAC / preamp with DSP would sell like hot bread, especially if you include enough channels for main speakers + subwoofers or multiway speakers.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
If you were to do an amplifier with a DAC, why not consider the same amplifier also without a DAC?
Standardize your bus, standardize your connector and allow for the DAC to be an option (to keep the cost down), an add-on, and most importantly, a future maintenance/upgrade path as newer DAC chips come along that people feel they must have.
Two nice knurled thumbscrews, user installable with instructions and either an included SOTA DAC board, or a blank plate with "expansion bus" on it.
And actually have 2-3 year DAC upgrade options in the pipeline.
Standardize your bus, standardize your connector and allow for the DAC to be an option (to keep the cost down), an add-on, and most importantly, a future maintenance/upgrade path as newer DAC chips come along that people feel they must have.
Two nice knurled thumbscrews, user installable with instructions and either an included SOTA DAC board, or a blank plate with "expansion bus" on it.
And actually have 2-3 year DAC upgrade options in the pipeline.
ViciousAndCruel
Member
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Also interested in multichannel/HDMI/Earc etc. If you’re allowed to, I think cross posting in the home theatre subforum would get more multichannel votes. I only came across this post by accident and that will end up in some skewed results
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
During more than a year I looked for a product that does not exist: a tiny stereo class D amp with a volume button and a on/off remote (auto on would have been suitable).
It is for my surround channels that receive the audio using a RF transmitter.
RCA input was mandatory.
I ended buying a Yamaha WXA-50 that does the job.
As it has a spdif input and a LFE output I may use it later for my computer audio.
It is for my surround channels that receive the audio using a RF transmitter.
RCA input was mandatory.
I ended buying a Yamaha WXA-50 that does the job.
As it has a spdif input and a LFE output I may use it later for my computer audio.
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I am currently considering a multichannel Ncore/Nilai amp, 3 channels to be precise for LCR. Your auto on function would be killer for this
Ideally something with the power of NC502/500. Currently you can't get an odd number of channels from other manufacturers with the Ncore amps and Purifi is too expensive. The cheaper this can be while keeping your boXem niceties the better xD
Built in crossover for subs would be interesting to have as well
Just my two cents
P.S. A one box solution would be awesome, currently this requires multiple ones
Ideally something with the power of NC502/500. Currently you can't get an odd number of channels from other manufacturers with the Ncore amps and Purifi is too expensive. The cheaper this can be while keeping your boXem niceties the better xD
Built in crossover for subs would be interesting to have as well
Just my two cents
P.S. A one box solution would be awesome, currently this requires multiple ones
killdozzer
Major Contributor
I'll just let my wet dream guide me. Please don't mind. You can just write it off as an extreme.
I'd like to see it LOOK and FEEL like this:
teac.jp
Perform like this (plus phono input):
www.audiophonics.fr
And cost as much as this:
usa.yamaha.com
I'd like to see it LOOK and FEEL like this:
AX-505 | OVERVIEW | TEAC | International Website
TEAC from home audio to high-end audio, we are developing a variety of products that you can enjoy the music rich.
teac.jp
Perform like this (plus phono input):
MINIDSP SHD POWER Streamer DAC PCM1795 DSP SHARC Dirac Live Amplifier TPA3255 2x120W 4 ohm Black - Audiophonics
SHD Power by miniDSP is an all-in-one device including a network streamer, a DAC, a DSP with volume control and a stereo amplifier with additional analog outputs to connect up to two active sub speakers simultaneously .
www.audiophonics.fr
And cost as much as this:
A-S801 - Overview - Yamaha - United States
Enjoy USB DAC functionality coupled with high fidelity. ToP-ART circuitry, Pure Direct, refined construction and stunningly good looks offer superior musicality with rich, natural sound.
usa.yamaha.com
My dream component is the one lacking to migrate gracefully from 2 channels stereo to multichannel : a high-performance and versatile full featured analogue multichannel preamplifier.
Such a dream device should include :
- separate input gain adjustment for each channel ;
- switchable ultrasonic low-pass filters with different cutt-off frequencies (notably to filter out SA-CD/DSD high frequency noise or the likes depending on matching power amp and/or speaker performances) ;
- a high quality accurate main volume control with less than 0,2 dB (preferably less than 0,1 dB) channel imbalance between all channels whatever the level and 1 dB or less stepped levels, at least at mid-course ;
- separate tone controls on each channel, preferably a bit elaborate (switchable or continuously adjustable turn-over frequencies) ;
- phase inverter for each channel and preferably a channel inverter for each arbitrary pair of channels to correct miswiring or error in the source recording (yes, that things do happen) ;
- robust output stages with low output impedance to drive very long cables to distant power amplifiers, with preferably two switchable outputs per channel (1 or 2 and 1+ 2, for multi-room, comparing two different amplifier/loudspeaker combinations or easily monitoring the ouput with measurement devices) ;
Optional digital input board (with multichannel decoding capabilities), remote control option (ON/OFF, input selection, muting and volume would be sufficient) and clipping indicator (LEDs for instance) on each channel would be appreciated.
It would be perfect if the preamplifier is of modular construction, as it would allow everyone to buy the number of channels he wants (only 2 or more).
I do not care about XLR inputs/outputs as long as input/output impedances and ground are correctly managed and the input/output connectors are of sufficiently good quality. I also do not care about ultimate distortion or noise figures as long as both are of inaudible levels.
Such a dream device should include :
- separate input gain adjustment for each channel ;
- switchable ultrasonic low-pass filters with different cutt-off frequencies (notably to filter out SA-CD/DSD high frequency noise or the likes depending on matching power amp and/or speaker performances) ;
- a high quality accurate main volume control with less than 0,2 dB (preferably less than 0,1 dB) channel imbalance between all channels whatever the level and 1 dB or less stepped levels, at least at mid-course ;
- separate tone controls on each channel, preferably a bit elaborate (switchable or continuously adjustable turn-over frequencies) ;
- phase inverter for each channel and preferably a channel inverter for each arbitrary pair of channels to correct miswiring or error in the source recording (yes, that things do happen) ;
- robust output stages with low output impedance to drive very long cables to distant power amplifiers, with preferably two switchable outputs per channel (1 or 2 and 1+ 2, for multi-room, comparing two different amplifier/loudspeaker combinations or easily monitoring the ouput with measurement devices) ;
Optional digital input board (with multichannel decoding capabilities), remote control option (ON/OFF, input selection, muting and volume would be sufficient) and clipping indicator (LEDs for instance) on each channel would be appreciated.
It would be perfect if the preamplifier is of modular construction, as it would allow everyone to buy the number of channels he wants (only 2 or more).
I do not care about XLR inputs/outputs as long as input/output impedances and ground are correctly managed and the input/output connectors are of sufficiently good quality. I also do not care about ultimate distortion or noise figures as long as both are of inaudible levels.
Last edited:
I think there’s also a market for a neat, no-nonsense, domestically friendly answer to this question.
www.audiosciencereview.com
MiniDSP SHD Studio alternatives
Hi all, My current audio set up includes a pair of Genelec 8341AWM monitors combined with a pair of non-Genelec 12" active subwoofers. I use a MiniDSP SHD (full fat version) as volume control, input selection and parametric EQ for my two subs. I have decided to take the plunge and go for an...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Ideally with optional Volumio, headphone output (and amp), Dirac Live® (or ARC), and a DAC.
So, depending on options, it would be an alternative to the Flex and/or SHD Studio.
I always thought that the flex digital was the nail in the coffin of the SHD studio... wasn't it, sort of?I think there’s also a market for a neat, no-nonsense, domestically friendly answer to this question.
MiniDSP SHD Studio alternatives
Hi all, My current audio set up includes a pair of Genelec 8341AWM monitors combined with a pair of non-Genelec 12" active subwoofers. I use a MiniDSP SHD (full fat version) as volume control, input selection and parametric EQ for my two subs. I have decided to take the plunge and go for an...
No. I think ideally without all that.
Sokel
Master Contributor
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I'm a usual suspect wanting nicer enclosures (like the audiophonics one but nicer) who can take care or imply better thermal management.
The second one is tough...
A 4 channel amp combining elegance as well as raw power but nice measuring as well,like a Purifi combined with an Ice power edge 1200 or 2000.
That,with some management involved (replaceable DACs,filters,etc) could drive trains,it would be almost universal.
Not only could straight upgrade existing speakers (forget the standalone tweeter dedicated amp,never measured them going over 5V,like never,even when the house is shaking by the rest) but could be a base of a gazillion diy projects we see around as an endgame solution.
That in the 3k region would be killer.
The second one is tough...
A 4 channel amp combining elegance as well as raw power but nice measuring as well,like a Purifi combined with an Ice power edge 1200 or 2000.
That,with some management involved (replaceable DACs,filters,etc) could drive trains,it would be almost universal.
Not only could straight upgrade existing speakers (forget the standalone tweeter dedicated amp,never measured them going over 5V,like never,even when the house is shaking by the rest) but could be a base of a gazillion diy projects we see around as an endgame solution.
That in the 3k region would be killer.
Probably.
The OP there was after a non-DSP (except volume control) digital pre-amp though. Which turned out to be quite rare, especially decor/family friendly ones. He eventually went for one with DSP, paying quite a bit for a whole range of functions he’s not least interested in.
I think his ideal device would be a great companion to many other pieces of pro audio gear, and could actually be an important and currently missing link between home and pro audio.
I'm going to be a bit brutal here. In order to be viable and possible to produce at a bill of materials which allows a realistic cost a product must sell in sufficient numbers to offset fixed costs. Ideally you take one design and sell several minor variants of it in to different markets.
A modular analogue preamp is going to sell a tiny number of units.
Anything involving HDMI or decoding any licensed format is pain difficulty and licensing fees eating in to profit margins.
Some observations:
- There are very few high quality multichannel DACs on the market
- If you want multichannel room correction then you have to buy an AVR or processor with subpar DACs, generally limited to 48k when processing and etc
- Professional products which are essentially a multichannel digital input, correction and DACs are very expensive and sold as monitor controllers for Atmos studios for example a Grace m908 or Trinnov D-MON or the products from Digital Audio Denmark with appropriate SPQ and analogue out cards.
- It recently became possible to output discrete Atmos from Apple Music on a Mac as long as the Mac has a audio interface attached with exactly 16 outputs.
Thus there is a gap in the market for a set of product:
Product A:
- has a multichannel digital input providing 16 channels up to at least 24/96. To make it broadly usable this could be:
* class compliant USB for use with Apple Music on a Mac
* Multiple simulataneous banks of Audio over Ethernet, probably AES67 to avoid audivate licensing fees for Dante, to integrate with a studio environment or Arvus H2-4D (which does not do room correction) to build a dis-aggregated AVR.
- Provides DSP for all channels running at at least 24/96
* To avoid having to write software to configure this it should integrate with REW and or Sonarworks Multi Channel.
- Provides a multichannel digital output to a DAC via AES67.
- Provides a 12v trigger input and output.
* This allows the user to choose which DAC they want.
Product B:
* Has a 16 channel AES67 input and a 16 channel DAC of acceptable quality to ASR.
* Has a 12v trigger input.
* Has sufficient 12v trigger outputs to control power status of enough power amps or subs to cover 16 outputs.
Product C:
Now we are in to licensing territory you then want a licensed and rebranded version of the Arvus H2-4D with its analogue outputs removed:
- A 12v trigger output needs to be added.
- HDMI CEC support needs to be added.
Combining products A B and C
If you only need the HDMI inputs your TV has we now have a disaggregated AVR which takes input via eARC from a TV.
If you need more HDMI inputs then you need
Product D:
An HDMI switch with 7 inputs, 1 audio output via HDMI to Product C one video output via HDMI to the TV.
HD Fury has it's Vertex line which almost does this but with not enough inputs.
All of these potential products have market on their own and can be made in home and pro variants and could be sold in a bundle together in a nice frame.
If any of the above could be done at acceptable cost is another matter.
A modular analogue preamp is going to sell a tiny number of units.
Anything involving HDMI or decoding any licensed format is pain difficulty and licensing fees eating in to profit margins.
Some observations:
- There are very few high quality multichannel DACs on the market
- If you want multichannel room correction then you have to buy an AVR or processor with subpar DACs, generally limited to 48k when processing and etc
- Professional products which are essentially a multichannel digital input, correction and DACs are very expensive and sold as monitor controllers for Atmos studios for example a Grace m908 or Trinnov D-MON or the products from Digital Audio Denmark with appropriate SPQ and analogue out cards.
- It recently became possible to output discrete Atmos from Apple Music on a Mac as long as the Mac has a audio interface attached with exactly 16 outputs.
Thus there is a gap in the market for a set of product:
Product A:
- has a multichannel digital input providing 16 channels up to at least 24/96. To make it broadly usable this could be:
* class compliant USB for use with Apple Music on a Mac
* Multiple simulataneous banks of Audio over Ethernet, probably AES67 to avoid audivate licensing fees for Dante, to integrate with a studio environment or Arvus H2-4D (which does not do room correction) to build a dis-aggregated AVR.
- Provides DSP for all channels running at at least 24/96
* To avoid having to write software to configure this it should integrate with REW and or Sonarworks Multi Channel.
- Provides a multichannel digital output to a DAC via AES67.
- Provides a 12v trigger input and output.
* This allows the user to choose which DAC they want.
Product B:
* Has a 16 channel AES67 input and a 16 channel DAC of acceptable quality to ASR.
* Has a 12v trigger input.
* Has sufficient 12v trigger outputs to control power status of enough power amps or subs to cover 16 outputs.
Product C:
Now we are in to licensing territory you then want a licensed and rebranded version of the Arvus H2-4D with its analogue outputs removed:
- A 12v trigger output needs to be added.
- HDMI CEC support needs to be added.
Combining products A B and C
If you only need the HDMI inputs your TV has we now have a disaggregated AVR which takes input via eARC from a TV.
If you need more HDMI inputs then you need
Product D:
An HDMI switch with 7 inputs, 1 audio output via HDMI to Product C one video output via HDMI to the TV.
HD Fury has it's Vertex line which almost does this but with not enough inputs.
All of these potential products have market on their own and can be made in home and pro variants and could be sold in a bundle together in a nice frame.
If any of the above could be done at acceptable cost is another matter.
You could combine this 3 or 5 channel amp with this simple case work ? For installation home theatre looks is not that important. And keep the exclusive look for 2 or 1 channel amps .
Imho it’s more than the case that differs these amps , the buffer board and it’s features differ between almost all of the brands that offers these kind of amps . Boxem seems to have a solid design no surprises there .
Imho it’s more than the case that differs these amps , the buffer board and it’s features differ between almost all of the brands that offers these kind of amps . Boxem seems to have a solid design no surprises there .
What about an amp with Hypex NCx500 NCOREx Amir just reviewed and autosense to begin with. And then later on a DAC/pre with remote in the same setup?
