(not that much) desperate manufacturer needing your advise

[ubiq]

What about an amp with Hypex NCx500 NCOREx Amir just reviewed and autosense to begin with. And then later on a DAC/pre with remote in the same setup?

Was wondering if you were considering a stereo amp based upon the new HYPEX NCx500 modules of the Ncore X series. Happy new year.

Indeed ;-)
I was posting this 2 days before Amir's review !

 

[boXem]

Indeed ;-)
I was posting this 2 days before Amir's review !

The review didn't change my reply .

 

[abdo123]

You mean without a DAC onboard or just a plain amp style. There's reasons that the plain integrated amp has endured so many years and systems. It just works and does it's function(s) well. It can be a pre-amp on demand too.

lack of high-pass filters and / or loopbacks to remedy the lack of high-pass filters has made them so unpractical for me in 2023.

 

[ubiq]

The review didn't change my reply .

I guess. In fact, one would say it corroborates it

 

[ENG]

The review didn't change my reply .

I missed that. In other word - it’s going to be expensive.

 

[boXem]

I missed that. In other word - it’s going to be expensive.

Or it's not going to be at all...

 

[Fahzz]

Just make small, reasonably priced three and/or five channel NC252MP power amps with 12 volt trigger, in both RCA and/or XLR. I have to think the majority of your customers are supplementing their AVR output. I know there's a couple of other companies doing three channel, but not many. Not sure why there's so many four channel units out there - that's one channel too many or one channel too few.

 

[Fledermaus]

Hi Fred,
Checked "other".
Given your current range and apparent customer expectations, at least as expressed on French fora, I guess some kind of preamp would be welcome. As the pure analog preamp is a bit of an outdated concept imho, some additional / optional, upgradeable DAC card could fit in nicely.
As for sub outs, dunno, since it implies Xover functionality on top, is it worth it ?
If used for driving some DIY active 2-way, could make for a nice boXem rack with pre/Xover + amps nevertheless

 

[sofrep811]

Dear ASR community, we would like to ask your sincere input to decide what's next for boXem.

All the ideas from the poll have a design started (schematics more or less ready) but need time and money to be produced.
Since days are only 24 hours, time is somehow limited.
Money is mainly needed for the mandatory certifications and for the production of the first batch of components. Basically, we invest for one product after the other. If the product happens to be a business failure, next product is delayed until enough resources are again available. As of now, funds are available for launching any of the listed products.
So priorities need to be set.

Your input will help us to set these priorities. In advance, many tanks!

I would immediately buy a budget amp if it could be used like my Emotiva: Two Channel, Single Input, Output, with Volume Control. Ability to bridge it. Headphone amp and plug-in. Could be used as sub amp as well. I think this would take off like Schitt did-they started little. I bought the first DAC Bifrost for $250 and they did a great job of building from there. Perfect marketing as well. Going after the 18-35 crowd with the name, logo, and simple marketing. Keep it simple and build as it goes. Never bite off more than you can chew.

Put your best in a simple amp and let the product speak for itself. Most 18-35 aren't buying huge amps with no volume pots to bridge. They listen to most of their music at a desk.

The key for success is amps under $500.

 

[chelgrian]

I'm going to be a bit brutal here. In order to be viable and possible to produce at a bill of materials which allows a realistic cost a product must sell in sufficient numbers to offset fixed costs. Ideally you take one design and sell several minor variants of it in to different markets.

A modular analogue preamp is going to sell a tiny number of units.

Anything involving HDMI or decoding any licensed format is pain difficulty and licensing fees eating in to profit margins.

Some observations:
- There are very few high quality multichannel DACs on the market
- If you want multichannel room correction then you have to buy an AVR or processor with subpar DACs, generally limited to 48k when processing and etc
- Professional products which are essentially a multichannel digital input, correction and DACs are very expensive and sold as monitor controllers for Atmos studios for example a Grace m908 or Trinnov D-MON or the products from Digital Audio Denmark with appropriate SPQ and analogue out cards.
- It recently became possible to output discrete Atmos from Apple Music on a Mac as long as the Mac has a audio interface attached with exactly 16 outputs.

Thus there is a gap in the market for a set of product:

Product A:
- has a multichannel digital input providing 16 channels up to at least 24/96. To make it broadly usable this could be:

* class compliant USB for use with Apple Music on a Mac
* Multiple simulataneous banks of Audio over Ethernet, probably AES67 to avoid audivate licensing fees for Dante, to integrate with a studio environment or Arvus H2-4D (which does not do room correction) to build a dis-aggregated AVR.

- Provides DSP for all channels running at at least 24/96

* To avoid having to write software to configure this it should integrate with REW and or Sonarworks Multi Channel.

- Provides a multichannel digital output to a DAC via AES67.

- Provides a 12v trigger input and output.

* This allows the user to choose which DAC they want.

Product B:

* Has a 16 channel AES67 input and a 16 channel DAC of acceptable quality to ASR.

* Has a 12v trigger input.

* Has sufficient 12v trigger outputs to control power status of enough power amps or subs to cover 16 outputs.

Product C:

Now we are in to licensing territory you then want a licensed and rebranded version of the Arvus H2-4D with its analogue outputs removed:

- A 12v trigger output needs to be added.
- HDMI CEC support needs to be added.


Combining products A B and C

If you only need the HDMI inputs your TV has we now have a disaggregated AVR which takes input via eARC from a TV.

If you need more HDMI inputs then you need

Product D:

An HDMI switch with 7 inputs, 1 audio output via HDMI to Product C one video output via HDMI to the TV.

HD Fury has it's Vertex line which almost does this but with not enough inputs.


All of these potential products have market on their own and can be made in home and pro variants and could be sold in a bundle together in a nice frame.

If any of the above could be done at acceptable cost is another matter.

Arvus have now announced a version of their processor that only has AES67 out an no analogue and shaves ~1500 off the asking price.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Something like an Okto Dac8 PRO with amplification? Wondering how big is the market for such a thing.

Maybe a four channel version with two channels of amplification, Camilla configurable for two sub channels with high/low pass+peq+dsp. Kind of like a miniDSP Flex with attached stereo amp.

 

[chelgrian]

Maybe a four channel version with two channels of amplification, Camilla configurable for two sub channels with high/low pass+peq+dsp. Kind of like a miniDSP Flex with attached stereo amp.

Again it's the combinations you can make

- DSP only
- Amp only
- DSP + amp

With minimal incremental cost over just having the DSP and address more markets.

There are a lot of professional power amps with integrated DSP for cross over, limiting and a few PEQ filters now but such things don't exist in the hifi space really. The pro products also don't have enough DSP to implement room corrections.

 

[Snoopy]

Roon + Dirac + 2 channel Poweramp.

Hdmi eARC

 

[Rja4000]

I am a bit careful with Dirac: when I discuss with people who actually tested it, most of them were disappointed

I'm using DIRAC for years and I'm very happy with it.

 

[quattro98]

It's because the cost of the NC252MP is similar for the 1 channel and 2 channel modules. As a manufacturer, it's probably cheaper to just make 2/4/6/8 channel amps and only stock the two channel module. Buying a 4 channel amp for the price of a 3 channel amp and leaving 1 channel unused is ok.

Just make small, reasonably priced three and/or five channel NC252MP power amps with 12 volt trigger, in both RCA and/or XLR. I have to think the majority of your customers are supplementing their AVR output. I know there's a couple of other companies doing three channel, but not many. Not sure why there's so many four channel units out there - that's one channel too many or one channel too few.

 

[boXem]

Since the subject of using several NC252MP in the same box comes back, I have worked on the subject last week and it probably won't happen. Getting such an amp passing the EMI regulations requires additional external components and validation testing that would significantly increase the cost.

 

[oldandintheway]

Since the subject of using several NC252MP in the same box comes back, I have worked on the subject last week and it probably won't happen. Getting such an amp passing the EMI regulations requires additional external components and validation testing that would significantly increase the cost.

You mean you are both familiar with and adhere to the appropriate regulations? How very old fashioned of you !

 

[Jim Taylor]

Since the subject of using several NC252MP in the same box comes back, I have worked on the subject last week and it probably won't happen. Getting such an amp passing the EMI regulations requires additional external components and validation testing that would significantly increase the cost.

You mean you are both familiar with and adhere to the appropriate regulations? How very old fashioned of you !

... and I can assure you, for myself at least, how very much such diligence is appreciated!

Jim