Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[bitels]

What is strange, it happens only to one speaker at time, never both of them.

Still, both are affected, randomly.

 

[boxerfan88]

Perhaps you should hear it? With only the power cable plugged in, it still produces noise.

Yeah, i can hear the high pitch whine quite clearly in the video. Not sure why he can’t hear it.

Sounds like some electronic component issue rather than driver issue.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I'm interested in upgrading my Windows 11 gaming PC (with an MSI MPG X870E CARBON WIFI motherboard) sound system to these Neumann KH 120 II speakers. I currently have a Denon S730H, KEF Q100 pair, and Dayton Audio SUB-1200 subwoofer. I just play single player games like Cyberpunk 2077, Alan Wake II, and Baldur's Gate 3 (no music or movies).

Would I need to buy a DAC like the RME Babyface Pro FS to connect my PC to the KH 120 speakers?

Other than the KH 750, what subwoofer would work well with these speakers?

View attachment 433341

I don't know if you are still considering the 'upgrade,' but the KEF coaxials you have are much better suited to that placement than the MT design of the Neumanns. I would try to EQ the KEFs (preferably with some attempt at better positioning) into submission before spending money on the Neumanns. I have the Neumanns, and they really want your ear to be somewhere between the midwoofer and tweeter.

This is what you can expect if your ears are ~12" above the tweeters:

Your bass response will be better, since they will be placed closer to the wall than mine, but still not worth the upgrade.

Do some objective work with the Q100s. I have them in my living room, and with some EQ, they are surprisingly good. You might be amazed at the cost of almost nothing additional.

 

[rolltide]

I don't know if you are still considering the 'upgrade,' but the KEF coaxials you have are much better suited to that placement than the MT design of the Neumanns. I would try to EQ the KEFs (preferably with some attempt at better positioning) into submission before spending money on the Neumanns. I have the Neumanns, and they really want your ear to be somewhere between the midwoofer and tweeter.

This is what you can expect if your ears are ~12" above the tweeters:

View attachment 437841

Your bass response will be better, since they will be placed closer to the wall than mine, but still not worth the upgrade.

Do some objective work with the Q100s. I have them in my living room, and with some EQ, they are surprisingly good. You might be amazed at the cost of almost nothing additional.

Wow thank you so much! This is really helpful.

I did pick up a pair of Neumanns this week and am auditioning them now. Not sure if I will keep them or return them, but I will definitely EQ the KEFs and go from there.

Can I also EQ the Neumanns with my UMIK-1 and REW? I don't have the MA 1.

Thanks again!

 

[Steve Dallas]

Wow thank you so much! This is really helpful.

I did pick up a pair of Neumanns this week and am auditioning them now. Not sure if I will keep them or return them, but I will definitely EQ the KEFs and go from there.

Can I also EQ the Neumanns with my UMIK-1 and REW? I don't have the MA 1.

Thanks again!

Of course. The Neumanns take EQ very well.

What are you using for EQ?

 

[teashea]

It is very curious....... best wishes with finding a solution. I hope someone else here has an idea.

 

[rolltide]

Of course. The Neumanns take EQ very well.

What are you using for EQ?

This is all new to me and I haven't EQ'd anything before. I was planning on using REW with my UMIK-1. Will that work?

If I end up keeping the Neumanns I plan on getting the IsoAcoustics ISO-155 stands. Would those work well?

One moment, please...

 

[Steve Dallas]

This is all new to me and I haven't EQ'd anything before. I was planning on using REW with my UMIK-1. Will that work?

If I end up keeping the Neumanns I plan on getting the IsoAcoustics ISO-155 stands. Would those work well?

One moment, please...

You can measure the response using REW and your UMIK, but you will need an EQ product to apply equalization. On Windows Equalizer APO is free, powerful, and very popular.

If you were using the MA1 and associated software, you can store the correction in the monitors.

(I do not know if the Neumann calibration software will allow you to use another mic, as I have not used it yet.)

 

[unpluggged]

(I do not know if the Neumann calibration software will allow you to use another mic, as I have not used it yet.)

No. I don't understand why not just get the MA 1 mic straight away and be done.

 

[Steve Dallas]

No. I don't understand why not just get the MA 1 mic straight away and be done.

$75 vs. $300. It matters to some people.

 

[unpluggged]

$75 vs. $300. It matters to some people.

And a $450 + $200 + shipping + duties etc. for getting an external DSP box like the miniDSP Flex DL (which is redundant here). I wish my living room speakers had an integrated room EQ feature. When they die next time (I had the DSP boards replaced twice for both of them already), I think I will just ditch them and get a pair of KH 150.

There is a consensus here that the MA 1 (which is a fraction of the price of a pair of even the KH 120 II) is the best way to calibrate DSP-based Neumann monitors. Besides, you can use the MA 1 mic with third-party measurement systems, including REW. And if you add a sub, it makes even more sense.

Now I think I'm repeating myself here.

 

[Steve Dallas]

And a $450 + $200 + shipping + duties etc. for getting an external DSP box like the miniDSP Flex DL (which is redundant here). I wish my living room speakers had an integrated room EQ feature. When they die next time (I had the DSP boards replaced twice for both of them already), I think I will just ditch them and get a pair of KH 150.

There is a consensus here that the MA 1 (which is a fraction of the price of a pair of even the KH 120 II) is the best way to calibrate DSP-based Neumann monitors. Besides, you can use the MA 1 mic with third-party measurement systems, including REW. And if you add a sub, it makes even more sense.

Now I think I'm repeating myself here.

It depends entirely upon your use case. For desktop use, as we were discussing here, you can run free or inexpensive software on your PC, whether it be simple EQ or convolution.

To use the MA1 with other systems, you need an interface for AD conversion at additional cost. The UMIK is USB--no interface needed.

There is no 'one way' to apply correction to these speakers.

 

[jkml]

What is strange, it happens only to one speaker at time, never both of them.

Still, both are affected, randomly.

Hi--made an account to corroborate on this issue, as it seems not uncommon.

I have also gone through several kh120ii units, only for one (always just one) to have this issue. The whine that happens once every 10-30 bootups or so is accompanied by a distortion of the bass, almost like the woofer is being prematurely limited.

For context, I am not into audiophile stuff--I do audio production and mixing, so my signal chain is quite clean in terms of power, and linear in terms of sound; so far other audio professional gear (avantone mixcubes, camden ec2 mic preamp, the headphone outs on my audient id44 interface) do not exhibit any issues and are dead silent.

My audio signal flow is macbookpro-->audient id44 mkii interface-->kh120ii's, via mogami gold trs to balanced xlr.

My power connections are wall duplex-->furman pst-8 power conditioner-->kh120ii's. And yes, I have checked to ensure no other devices on the same power strip and duplex are causing interference, including the pair of active avantone mixcubes. I will recheck though, whenever the issue comes up again.

Like Bitels, turning the monitor off then on again solves the issue, so far 100% percent of the time. I am working with Neumann/Sennheiser to sus out the source of the issue.

Thankfully, the issue is few and far between enough to keep being productive, although it is extremely sporadic--once I had the issue happen back-to-back across two days, and then not once for a month or so. I don't have any habits with other gear that corresponds to that pattern (e.g. using a guitar amp for those two days, then not again for a month or so), so it seems highly likely there's something up with the kh120ii's.

Again, I'm working with Neumann on a long-running support ticket to figure this out, so we'll see.

 

[jkml]

Also should mention--I see that in bitel's video, switching to another input type clears the issue--I am personally unable to do this for my current setup, and I need the balanced line/xlr input type to work.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @jkml! Welcome to ASR and thanks for sharing your experience!

In theory, would the following signal flow work for you:
macbookpro-->audient id44 mkii interface-->Optical-->Optical to Coax converter-->Coax-->kh120ii SPDIF input.

At the very least, it might be valuable info for Neumann support if the digital input is also affected.

 

[jkml]

Hi @jkml! Welcome to ASR and thanks for sharing your experience!

In theory, would the following signal flow work for you:
macbookpro-->audient id44 mkii interface-->Optical-->Optical to Coax converter-->Coax-->kh120ii SPDIF input.

At the very least, it might be valuable info for Neumann support if the digital input is also affected.

Hi staticv3! Unfortunately I need the optical in and outs for a planned i/o expansion. The line outs will be the only outputs I have when this is put in place.

Also, I do not currently have the cables necessary to test.

 

[bitels]

Hi--made an account to corroborate on this issue, as it seems not uncommon.

I have also gone through several kh120ii units, only for one (always just one) to have this issue. The whine that happens once every 10-30 bootups or so is accompanied by a distortion of the bass, almost like the woofer is being prematurely limited.

For context, I am not into audiophile stuff--I do audio production and mixing, so my signal chain is quite clean in terms of power, and linear in terms of sound; so far other audio professional gear (avantone mixcubes, camden ec2 mic preamp, the headphone outs on my audient id44 interface) do not exhibit any issues and are dead silent.

My audio signal flow is macbookpro-->audient id44 mkii interface-->kh120ii's, via mogami gold trs to balanced xlr.

My power connections are wall duplex-->furman pst-8 power conditioner-->kh120ii's. And yes, I have checked to ensure no other devices on the same power strip and duplex are causing interference, including the pair of active avantone mixcubes. I will recheck though, whenever the issue comes up again.

Like Bitels, turning the monitor off then on again solves the issue, so far 100% percent of the time. I am working with Neumann/Sennheiser to sus out the source of the issue.

Thankfully, the issue is few and far between enough to keep being productive, although it is extremely sporadic--once I had the issue happen back-to-back across two days, and then not once for a month or so. I don't have any habits with other gear that corresponds to that pattern (e.g. using a guitar amp for those two days, then not again for a month or so), so it seems highly likely there's something up with the kh120ii's.

Again, I'm working with Neumann on a long-running support ticket to figure this out, so we'll see.

Hey, part of me feels glad I am not the only one, part of me feels sorry, you have to go through this with such a premium product, and waste time for this.

Anyway, I also have audient id 44, and power conditioner.

Still, as in the movie, I can disconnect anything from the speaker, and issue still persist.

Although I never tried to switch it on and off until it happens, with nothing connected. It is hard to replicate, since it happens as Jkml says. It can be twice in a row, twice a week, and then three weeks it will not occur.

Ohh, since a month or more, switching source at the back, won't help. I can also report when problem occurs, it seems to affect bass somehow.

Never had this problem with Adam a77h, eve sc207, Yamaha HS8, avantone mixcube, JBL lsr 305.

Oh, and since last few times, both speakers are affected, never at same time. But left speaker was problem free for like two months, and presented noise few times since then. Right was doing so since week two.


Do you live in place that have 110 volts ac?
If so, idea that it is caused by to high voltage, like 235v instead of 230, is also debunked.


I think I will start ticket with Neumann too, but this is bit tricky to solve.

 

[bitels]

BIG question is if it would by my system, other hardware I have or power at my house.
WHY, always only one speaker is affected, both connected to same power, same setup, cables and so...

It points problem directly to KH120II.
Might be built-in DSP related, but this should be a question for Neumann hardware development team, not consumers.

 

[jkml]

Hi Bitels--I have 60hz/120v power. I've double checked to ensure the noise wasn't ground hum/grounding in general. The recent reply I got from Neumann was to check if it was my screen--I have a gaming monitor with a max refresh of 144hz (that I run at 120hz) on a different power strip, but it is possible that the screen is introducing noise into the overall power system. Although, as I've mentioned to Neumann, it should be affecting both speakers in that case. Nonetheless, these are overall different speakers, so I'll try unplugging my screen and all screen connections next time the issue comes up.

Sorry to hear both speakers of yours are affected--my situation hasn't gotten that bad (yet).

As far as issues pointing to the DSP implementation, the kh120ii's not only have mandatory conversion (ADA for xlr, DA for digital), but are also using the DSP to control mechanical parameters (e.g. woofer limiting). So yeah, potentially a DSP issue. Hopefully it's something that can be fixed with firmware...definitely looking into going back to analogue speakers if this persists.

If you contact Neumann/Sennheiser, you can reference my ticket (ID: 68751).

 

[jkml]

to add--if the screen was the issue, it should be happening way more often than every now and then, as I use my screen 100% percent of the time I use my kh120ii's.