Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[LeonidKogan]

@unpluggged
Let me explain:
1. I already have UMIK-1
2. Flex with RCA outputs because I can't connect digital out to any sub other than KH750.
3. I found Flex (RCA) with Dirac license in my area below $800. SVS SB-1000 (used) would cost me ~$450 or I could get two brand new from a dealer for $1100. That means 2x SB1000 and used Flex would still be cheaper than a single KH750 and MA-1, that's without an interface I would have to buy to connect the mic.
4. I understand the convenience of the Neumann system, but it's a matter of price in my case. A sub that costs more than a pair of monitors seems quite absurd to me.

 

[jhaider]

i thought you could have two (and more) alignments in the MA1 software, are you sure you cant? there is a drop down box to select current alignment.

It's not nearly as easy a switch. And I don't think you can use alignments based on different measurements, which is what is required here.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

And I don't think you can use alignments based on different measurements, which is what is required here.

You can use alignments based on different measurements.

 

[unpluggged]

@unpluggged
Let me explain:
1. I already have UMIK-1
2. Flex with RCA outputs because I can't connect digital out to any sub other than KH750.
3. I found Flex (RCA) with Dirac license in my area below $800. SVS SB-1000 (used) would cost me ~$450 or I could get two brand new from a dealer for $1100. That means 2x SB1000 and used Flex would still be cheaper than a single KH750 and MA-1, that's without an interface I would have to buy to connect the mic.
4. I understand the convenience of the Neumann system, but it's a matter of price in my case. A sub that costs more than a pair of monitors seems quite absurd to me.

Why would you need two subs with a pair of KH 120 II?

Considering your situation, I still stand by my previous suggestion: get the MA 1 kit alone, calibrate your KH 120 II, and add the KH 750 DSP later, after saving up a bit. The speakers have some bass on their own, especially in the room. F3 at 44 Hz in free field is significantly lower than 52 Hz, as in my case.

And you don't have to buy an interface, you can just borrow it for a day from someone to perform the calibration.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

With room eq, I mean it's pretty clear with jazz, funk etc., but when the orchestral culmination comes in it becomes quite dense down there. Here are my measurements after eq - they come down almost flat to 34Hz, pretty impressive. I'm not sure if that doesn't make sub redundant with genres of music I listen to (classical, jazz). Below that I think mostly electronica benefits from sub, unless you prove me wrong. I listen in 2m equilateral triangle, the room is about 18m².
My only complaint compared to Kali IN8 is that they don't sound as big, otherwise they are in another league.

I had 2 KH750s in my 15sqm room but sold them because, like you, i also get bass almost down to 30Hz from KH120II plus roomgain alone. For me and the volume i listen, this is enough. Personally, i did not experience more "clean" bass with subs, but i rarely listen very loud, so YMMV.
Also, in my experience, there were drawbacks using subs:
1. i have a massive null in the 25-30Hz area (reflection /cancellation from back wall). Depending on the length of you room i would expect something like that in your 18sqm room as well. So i rarely was able to hear a difference in deep bass, because the 25-30Hz was missing with or without subs. In a bigger room subs may contribute more to the deep bass experience.
2. it is hard to describe and i can't rule out psychology, but in my experience and in some music, it just sounded better without subs, more "direct", maybe.

 

[jhaider]

You can use alignments based on different measurements.

But can you quickly and easily switch between them without firing up your computer?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

But can you quickly and easily switch between them without firing up your computer?

I didn't say that and no, you can´t. I only corrected your statement regarding the alignments.

 

[LeonidKogan]

I had 2 KH750s in my 15sqm room but sold them because, like you, i also get bass almost down to 30Hz from KH120II plus roomgain alone. For me and the volume i listen, this is enough. Personally, i did not experience more "clean" bass with subs, but i rarely listen very loud, so YMMV.
Also, in my experience, there were drawbacks using subs:
1. i have a massive null in the 25-30Hz area (reflection /cancellation from back wall). Depending on the length of you room i would expect something like that in your 18sqm room as well. So i rarely was able to hear a difference in deep bass, because the 25-30Hz was missing with or without subs. In a bigger room subs may contribute more to the deep bass experience.
2. it is hard to describe and i can't rule out psychology, but in my experience and in some music, it just sounded better without subs, more "direct", maybe.

I have just bought SB1000 for a good price, I don't have long enough RCA cables to connect monitors to SVS's high-passed outs so for now I just plugged it directly to my pre and set crossover to around 45-50Hz so that it doesn't bloat bass coming from monitors.
What I can say as of now is that it definitely sounds much deeper and fuller, I also don't hear severe room modes which is a good sign. Moreover, the sub nicely blends with the mains, I can't really hear it playing, which is surprising given I just threw it in a random spot and didn't make proper configuration. We'll see when the cables arrive, I will set the crossover to 80Hz, do measurements again and apply room correction. I'm afraid entry model from SVS will not give me that incredible articulation and precision which KH120 II have despite being just 5.25'' - if that is the case I will look for a better sub or just keep it at the lowest range without using HPF. It's already much better than before. When I switch it off monitors immediately sound dry.
A drawback is that I have to keep sub's volume at 100% without any possibility to play around it because it is connected with RCA, while the monitors get the signal from XLR out. I had to lower output volume in KH120 to 94dB to get fairly even volume.

 

[solawind]

It is probably room-dependent. I never got good results with a sub in my small room, and i gave up trying it. I probably need acoustic room treatment but i just dont see why it is worth it. the 120 II's bass extension is unbelievable considering their size. For me, they sound clean and deep enough without a sub.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Anyone compared ADAM A7V
to KH120 II?

 

[staticV3]

Anyone compared ADAM A7V
to KH120 II?

Comprehensive comparison courtesy of Sound&Recording:

Spoiler: Expand

Source:
https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-120-ii-2-wege-nahfeldmonitor-im-test/
https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/studiomonitor-adam-audio-a7v-im-test/

In summary, the Adam is worse in just about every way except compression.

 

[PristineSound]

In summary, the Adam is worse in just about every way except compression.

And it's very close in price.

You just simply can't touch Neumann and Genelec.

 

[Soria Moria]

I bought two of these yesterday along with the SMSL PO100 Pro (thanks to @staticV3)! Very excited to hear them. My worry is just that my fat CRT monitor on my tiny desk will cause a lot of reflections and that there will be magnetic interferance. But I do plan on buying a wider and deeper desk + MA1 pretty soon.

 

[teashea]

I bought two of these yesterday along with the SMSL PO100 Pro (thanks to @staticV3)! Very excited to hear them. My worry is just that my fat CRT monitor on my tiny desk will cause a lot of reflections and that there will be magnetic interferance. But I do plan on buying a wider and deeper desk + MA1 pretty soon.

Your monitor should not cause and issues with magnetic interference as long as the monitors are at least 6 inches away from it and as long as the monitor is a quality unit - which will be shielded from spewing forth...... If it is a junk monitor, then you have cause for concern.

As far as the other issue, make sure that the front of the monitors are not behind the monitor.

best wishes and enjoy these excellent monitors.

PS ensure that you sub is properly set up. 95% of subs are too loud.

 

[somebodyelse]

Your monitor should not cause and issues with magnetic interference as long as the monitors are at least 6 inches away from it and as long as the monitor is a quality unit - which will be shielded from spewing forth...... If it is a junk monitor, then you have cause for concern.

I think you've got that the wrong way round - the worry is the stray field from the KH120 magnets affecting the CRT image.

 

[csabi]

Hi, Does anyone know what has changed in the KH-120 II firmware version 1.1.14?

 

[csabi]

Also, what has changed in MA 1 version 2.4.5.4197? Just curious…

 

[slesinger]

They do.


There are already a few projects on GitHub:

GitHub - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc: Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python

Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc

github.com

GitHub - schwinn/khtool: Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers

Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers - schwinn/khtool

github.com

I've been thoroughly enjoying my Neumann KH-150 speakers, and like many of you, I wanted a way to deliver a full-volume digital signal to them without any degradation. The goal was to set the speakers' internal amplifiers to their optimal level and control the volume purely in the digital domain.
I decided to create my own solution: a custom, open-source volume control device built around an ESP32 and a 3D-printed case. I'm really happy with the result, and I'm sharing it with the community so others can build their own.
The project is fully open source, with all the details and files available on my GitHub page: https://github.com/slesinger/volume-control.
This device offers a number of features that I believe make it a compelling alternative to more expensive commercial solutions, including the official Neumann NRC1. It seamlessly integrates with my Neumann speakers, my Wiim Pro streamer, and my Home Assistant smart home setup.

 

[Matias]

I've been thoroughly enjoying my Neumann KH-150 speakers, and like many of you, I wanted a way to deliver a full-volume digital signal to them without any degradation. The goal was to set the speakers' internal amplifiers to their optimal level and control the volume purely in the digital domain.
I decided to create my own solution: a custom, open-source volume control device built around an ESP32 and a 3D-printed case. I'm really happy with the result, and I'm sharing it with the community so others can build their own.
The project is fully open source, with all the details and files available on my GitHub page: https://github.com/slesinger/volume-control.
This device offers a number of features that I believe make it a compelling alternative to more expensive commercial solutions, including the official Neumann NRC1. It seamlessly integrates with my Neumann speakers, my Wiim Pro streamer, and my Home Assistant smart home setup.

Nice. If only one manufacturer decides to build one of these for us dummies...

 

[PristineSound]

For those on the fence, you can save yourself $100 on Amazon.