Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[Waxx]

What subs did you use?

If i can suggest you sub drivers for diy, SB acoustics and Faital Pro makes great subwoofers for a reasonable price. A SB34NRX75-6 in a 80L sealed cabinet easely goes to 30Hz flat without dsp (in open air) and can get you an F6 (what matters for sealed subs) of 30Hz like that at 102dB (with one sub). With dsp you can even go lower, but it wil be limited in sound level (but 102dB at 30Hz is louder than you want, and room gain will drive that a bit up, even with dsp and room correction. That is a very easy build, and you can build it in the physical form like you wish, only keep 80L free space inside and fill it with damping material (whool, dacron (but loosend up) or similar material). Bracing the panels is necesairy, and the space that takes needs to be added to the 80L inside (so in reality it will be 90L or more when brace well).

The Faital Pro 12FE330-8 (or other variations of it) can do the same, but louder and in a bigger box (and not sealed, but ported). I do have a raw design somewhere (that was never build) of about 120L ported tuned to 30Hz.

And off course you also got the brute force Dayton subwoofers, the RS, RSS and UM series. They are not subtile, but go low and loud for it's size. I would not use them in studio's if i could (the SB and Faital are more refined), but for less critical setups, it's hard to beat on price/quality.

I myself use Scanspeak 26W8534G00 drivers in a 77L sealed cabinet and they are great, but not like the SB or the Faitals are when pushed. I did not know about those drivers when i bought the Scanspeaks (they were not in the market yet), but they do the job for me (i don't play very loud in my house) and are very refined and detailed for subwoofers and in an older iteration of my subwoofers, they were tuned to 23Hz in a 150L ported cabinet. That is too low for me (who is not into ht) and to big (cabinetwise) for my house at the time i build my actual subs (6 years ago) and recycled the drivers from that old one (build 11 years ago). That system is more than enough for my living room (8x3.8s2.8m)

I do plan a build with that Faital altough. I'm still in the planning phase, but it will be a multiway system with dsp, and the faital is candidate 1 at the moment to do the bass duty's. It got all the merits that i want for this project (altough i'm still looking arround). I did use it before in a 2 way system for someone with a BMS 4550 compression driver in a Yuchi style horn and dsp crossover at 1.2kHz. There it was in a MLTL cabinet tuned to 30Hz. I could have tuned it lower with that driver, but then the cabinet became to big for the client ...

But if you build a diy sub, you will need a dedicated dsp like a MIniDSP Flex (what i use) to tune it with your speakers. The Neumann subs have the advantag that they are in the same ecosystem of the monitors you have and work easier toghetter. But it's true that making better subs is not that difficult when you can program a dsp.

 

[GXAlan]

Phase linear is the highest level of monitoring, right?

I am not sure what the auto translate does for you. There is debate on how audible phase accuracy is. No one ever says it’s worse. Many say that it is only audible in very specific test tones when assessing speakers in mono. Some say that when you have multiple channels, whether arrays for pro audio use or multichannel for home use, it matters a lot.

Just like high SINAD is not expensive anymore, if you are going for active studio monitors, you can get phase linear speakers at reasonable prices.

 

[Taker]

Just buyed the V2 .

Manny thanks for all your help
peace out
Robert

 

[sysfc6]

If i can suggest you sub drivers for diy, SB acoustics and Faital Pro makes great subwoofers for a reasonable price. A SB34NRX75-6 in a 80L sealed cabinet easely goes to 30Hz flat without dsp (in open air) and can get you an F6 (what matters for sealed subs) of 30Hz like that at 102dB (with one sub). With dsp you can even go lower, but it wil be limited in sound level (but 102dB at 30Hz is louder than you want, and room gain will drive that a bit up, even with dsp and room correction. That is a very easy build, and you can build it in the physical form like you wish, only keep 80L free space inside and fill it with damping material (whool, dacron (but loosend up) or similar material). Bracing the panels is necesairy, and the space that takes needs to be added to the 80L inside (so in reality it will be 90L or more when brace well).

The Faital Pro 12FE330-8 (or other variations of it) can do the same, but louder and in a bigger box (and not sealed, but ported). I do have a raw design somewhere (that was never build) of about 120L ported tuned to 30Hz.

And off course you also got the brute force Dayton subwoofers, the RS, RSS and UM series. They are not subtile, but go low and loud for it's size. I would not use them in studio's if i could (the SB and Faital are more refined), but for less critical setups, it's hard to beat on price/quality.

我自己在一个77L的密封柜中使用Scanspeak 26W8534G00驱动程序，它们很棒，但不像SB或Faitals那样好用。当我购买Scanspeaks时，我并不知道这些驱动器(它们还没有上市)，但它们为我做了这项工作(我在家里不会放得很大声)，并且对于超重低音扬声器来说非常精致和详细，在我的旧版本超重低音扬声器中，它们在150L端口的音箱中被调谐到23Hz。这对于我来说太低了(我不喜欢ht ),对于我的房子来说又太大了(橱柜方面),当我建造我的潜艇(6年前)并回收旧潜艇(11年前建造)的驱动时。那个系统放我家客厅(8x3.8s2.8m米)绰绰有余

我确实计划和Faital一起建一栋楼。我仍在计划阶段，但它将是一个带dsp的多路系统，目前faital是做低音工作的候选人之一。它拥有我想要的这个项目的所有优点(尽管我还在四处寻找)。我以前在一个2路系统中使用过它，为一个有BMS 4550压缩驱动器的人用Yuchi风格的喇叭和dsp交叉，频率为1.2kHz，它在MLTL的一个调为30Hz的柜子里。我本可以用那个司机把它调小一点，但是那个柜子对客户来说太大了...

但是如果你自己做一个sub，你需要一个专用的dsp，比如MIniDSP Flex(我用的那个),用你的扬声器来调谐它。诺依曼潜艇的优势在于，它们与你的监视器处于同一个生态系统中，并且更容易组装。但是，如果你能给dsp编程，制造更好的潜艇并不困难。

I have a pair of 150... With a sub which one do you think xtz 3x12 or 750 is better with dirac calibration

 

[dshreter]

My room is very nice now as i did a lot of treatment last year and i really like this kh120 but wanna ear more in the music i do/ produce .
Im trying to figure out if the 120 v2 manny people reply, are a really step up from what i have or if i have to spend a lot more for the 310 ones.

Meanwille a 310 v2 is gonna land late this year or next, who knows.

Im happy with the 120, they translate very well to other systems and im used to them, thats why my search is between Neumann models.

Or, i can keep the system i have now and in the future invest in some PMC or something in that league.

Unless you are SPL limited by your current speakers, I really don't think you will find much more in the mix by upgrading to KH150. You already have something that is quite proficient in frequency response on and off axis. When it comes to the Neumann monitors, most of what you get as you move up the stack is increased SPL handling, while quality is very high across the board.

 

[gino1961]

Hi ! imho this is the kind of graph to look at for SPL with low distortion

THD starts increases below 100 Hz
In order to get the best sound from the speaker is important to cut its response below 100Hz sharply
if not when excited with a lower and powerful signal IMD will be generated
I guess that the bigger speakers (i.e. sporting bigger woofers) could be cut even lower
This performance is extremely impressive for a small speaker Nevertheless the speaker remains small
Great bass performance asks for bigger woofers and so speakers
This graph is a god's gift

 

[AnalogSteph]

It doesn't seriously get into trouble until slightly below 60 Hz, and that's at 96 dB. Things only start falling apart towards 40 Hz. That's not far from a decent 8", not to mention probably still very good in terms of IMD. Definitely respectable.

 

[gino1961]

It doesn't seriously get into trouble until slightly below 60 Hz, and that's at 96 dB. Things only start falling apart towards 40 Hz. That's not far from a decent 8", not to mention probably still very good in terms of IMD. Definitely respectable.

Absolutely
In some cases like when placed above a mixing desk size matters
So small monitors are the obvious choice

 

[VTKZ]

Hmm , thanks but i dont need that much of spl power , thats not what im looking for
Manny thanks for your reply .

Its not about SPL, its about room mode compensation. More subs : Even low freq. wave through the room : easyier control over room modes.
And Array Solutions still arent possible with MA1 and probably never will be.

Just read some articles what an Single / Double Bass Array / is and the sense behind it. It was just a kindly meant suggestion.
For an SBA (single Bass Array) they would work but even then, theyre little bit too expensive for what they are (for my taste after owning them and comparing them to my subs now). Yes its an great allinone package and the sub is still very small, but youve the problems with all the XLR Cables on the back, fixed crossovers and you cant tweak the Frequency arround with the software, because its limited with the neumann protocol of the automation.

But its just my experience after a few years with the subs and the Array was a nicely ment option you can think of

 

[Spocko]

I listened both in a well treated room side by side. unfortunately more mid clarity on 310 and more 3d imaging on 150.

Adding a matching sub to the KH120ii would improve mid clarity for sure

 

[Spocko]

Just buyed the V2 .

Manny thanks for all your help
peace out
Robert

Excellent choice, I've been using the v2 for editing/mixing/mastering the last year since its release and no complaints at all (1m distance in a treated room). And if you need higher SPL because your seating distance changes in the future, adding a subwoofer will extend its usefulness yet!

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just buyed the V2 .

Manny thanks for all your help
peace out
Robert

How's the sound

 

[teashea]

Adding a matching sub to the KH120ii would improve mid clarity for sure

The measurements and science do not support this. In addition, when I tried adding my KH750 to one of my pairs of KH120 II's, I could tell no difference in the midrange.

 

[feitaishi]

The measurements and science do not support this. In addition, when I tried adding my KH750 to one of my pairs of KH120 II's, I could tell no difference in the midrange.

Agree. Very minor improvement in the mid

 

[Pearljam5000]

If the price difference between KH 120 II and KH150 was smaller
it would have been easier to decide

 

[gino1961]

The measurements and science do not support this. In addition, when I tried adding my KH750 to one of my pairs of KH120 II's, I could tell no difference in the midrange.

Did you apply a high pass filter on the KH 120s or did you run them full range when using the sub ?

 

[HQY]

The measurements and science do not support this. In addition, when I tried adding my KH750 to one of my pairs of KH120 II's, I could tell no difference in the midrange.

Quote from Neumann website as below:

• Increasing the maximum SPL of loudspeakers
• Decreasing harmonic and intermodulation distortion of loudspeakers

KH 750 DSP - Subwoofer with 2.0/0.1 Bass Management

Compact DSP-controlled closed cabinet subwoofer

www.neumann.com

 

[gino1961]

it can go pretty high in frequency flat It is a complete bass not only a sub
It can be seen and used as a high quality lowest way of a 3 ways
I do not understand why using only a 10" and not a 12"
JBL's famous studio monitors used to sport 12" units for instance
a 12" can reach up to 400-500Hz without particular issue while providing a little extra undistorted SPL in the lower Hz
the car audio sector is quite more extreme speaking of bass speakers
I do not know why

 

[HIFIBOY]

Hello Filio45,

Both versions are possible. Going into the monitors first reduces the overall system delay because of the latency free digital out of the monitors.

View attachment 324723

Hi Markus , since I have changed the usage space, how can I clear the previous calibration data in the dsp chip of the speaker for re-measurement and calibration?

 

[dfuller]

The measurements and science do not support this. In addition, when I tried adding my KH750 to one of my pairs of KH120 II's, I could tell no difference in the midrange.

They do, actually. High passing a 2-way and adding a sub reduces midrange IMD, same way a 3-way does.