NAD M23 Stereo Amplifier Review

[PJ 1]

That is exactly the problem with the word - the reason you can't measure it is that we can't define it, and if we can't define it, it is pretty useless... If it can be defined, it can be measured or tested, but how do you test for something that you don't, strictly speaking, know what it is?

I found it helpful despite its inability to be quantified/qualified. I could make an equally compelling argument regarding one's family. How can one prove that you "love" them? Too often on sites like these, people reject information. That is not scientific. Psychoacoustics is the scientific study of sound perception and audiology. "Perception" is a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression. Holographic helped my mental impression.

Change the name of the site to "Audio Testing Review" and police the forums for vernacular you deem unsuitable or move on. Shouting down your customers who simply want to share and enjoy this hobby isn't the greatest idea. Doubly so if they are new to the forum. "Get off my lawn" will come next. Cheers.

 

[welwynnick]

Bravo!

 

[Julf]

I found it helpful despite its inability to be quantified/qualified. I could make an equally compelling argument regarding one's family. How can one prove that you "love" them? Too often on sites like these, people reject information. That is not scientific. Psychoacoustics is the scientific study of sound perception and audiology. "Perception" is a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression. Holographic helped my mental impression.

Change the name of the site to "Audio Testing Review" and police the forums for vernacular you deem unsuitable or move on. Shouting down your customers who simply want to share and enjoy this hobby isn't the greatest idea. Doubly so if they are new to the forum. "Get off my lawn" will come next. Cheers.

I have no customers on this site, and I haven't shouted down anyone, but thanks anyway. Cheers.

 

[Haskil]

I don't see what's wrong with describing something as holographic. It's one of many desirable attributes of high fidelity. I just can't think of any way of measuring it, though.

When a loudspeaker has a regular on-axis bandwidth and regular off-axis polar patterns, and has a decent impulse response... then there is every chance that it will reproduce two-channel stereo and even better in multi-channel stereo the sound sources captured by the microphones in a way which makes them plausible to the point that they give the illusion of materializing in front of you: the characteristic of a hologram is to be false but to give the illusion of a real presence perceived as false... but nevertheless disturbing.

Of course, this word should be used sparingly and never to differentiate between cables, DACs, sources, amplifiers as mystical audiophilia does throughout its reports... but when you listen to excellent sound recording made with little of means (not from the multimicrophones multimono reconstructed in stereo to the panoramic console) on a pair of first-rate speakers, we have this feeling with certain records: solo piano, solo harpsichord, lute, guitar, vocal-piano... C This is what high fidelity is all about... Well, it seems to me.

 

[CleanSound]

I don't see what's wrong with describing something as holographic. It's one of many desirable attributes of high fidelity. I just can't think of any way of measuring it, though.

Pair matched speakers can be a way to measure imaging and "holography."

For example if a pair of speakers are paired match to 1dB or lower, you will get good imaging and holography, but that is based on my experience, I don't have a $110k NFS to prove it.

 

[Rottmannash]

I found it helpful despite its inability to be quantified/qualified. I could make an equally compelling argument regarding one's family. How can one prove that you "love" them? Too often on sites like these, people reject information. That is not scientific. Psychoacoustics is the scientific study of sound perception and audiology. "Perception" is a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression. Holographic helped my mental impression.

Change the name of the site to "Audio Testing Review" and police the forums for vernacular you deem unsuitable or move on. Shouting down your customers who simply want to share and enjoy this hobby isn't the greatest idea. Doubly so if they are new to the forum. "Get off my lawn" will come next. Cheers.

Customers? Are we buying something?

 

[PJ 1]

Customers? Are we buying something?

Oops. You are correct. Not customers. Poor choice of words on my part. I will sit in the corner. How about; Shouting down your patrons/frequenters/user/visitor/guests/regulars... Actually revise the entire sentence to: "Overwhelming your visitors who simply want to share and enjoy this hobby isn't the greatest idea.... ....for a healthy hobby." Straw man arguments.

 

[CleanSound]

Oops. You are correct. Not customers. Poor choice of words on my part. I will sit in the corner. How about; Shouting down your patrons/frequenters/user/visitor/guests/regulars... Actually revise the entire sentence to: "Overwhelming your visitors who simply want to share and enjoy this hobby isn't the greatest idea.... ....for a healthy hobby." Straw man arguments.

Not a patron neither. And the guy who you have a disagreement with is a member just like you and I. So you are not his visitor.

 

[PJ 1]

Not a patron neither. And the guy who you have a disagreement with is a member just like you and I. So you are not his visitor.

"Overwhelming visitors by taking issues with their use of adjectives who come to share in a hobby might hurt or stifle discussion and intimidate new members who might otherwise provide valuable viewpoints." Better?

 

[CleanSound]

"Overwhelming visitors by taking issues with their use of adjectives who come to share in a hobby might hurt or stifle discussion and intimidate new members who might otherwise provide valuable viewpoints." Better?

I was going to rewrite this entire sentence, but don't know where to begin. But there will always be some who are very confrontational and have quite a bit of ego on the internet. Just ignore them like a barking dog and move on.

 

[PJ 1]

I was going to rewrite this entire sentence, but don't know where to begin. But there will always be some who are very confrontational and have quite a bit of ego on the internet. Just ignore them like a barking dog and move on.

That's funny cause I wasn't sure if you were one of the barking dogs to ignore. Being chastised for the way a person decides to opine on a topic is in my opinion, silly. A member was asking a fellow member a question regarding a piece of equipment. The response was appreciated and conveyed an answer understood by both. A third party took issue with the words used to convey that message. Your issues seem to be with the way I conveyed my frustration with these types of arguments that are unfortunately prevalent throughout this site. Use this word, not that. If you don't know where to begin, I suggest a thesaurus or dictionary, using verbs, nouns, and adjectives and have a clear thought you wish to convey. Cheers.

 

[CleanSound]

That's funny cause I wasn't sure if you were one of the barking dogs to ignore. Being chastised for the way a person decides to opine on a topic is in my opinion, silly. A member was asking a fellow member a question regarding a piece of equipment. The response was appreciated and conveyed an answer understood by both. A third party took issue with the words used to convey that message. Your issues seem to be with the way I conveyed my frustration with these types of arguments that are unfortunately prevalent throughout this site. Use this word, not that. If you don't know where to begin, I suggest a thesaurus or dictionary, using verbs, nouns, and adjectives and have a clear thought you wish to convey. Cheers.

Your used of the word "customer" reminded me of someone asking to speak to the manager at a hotdog stand because you had to wait online longer than you like. It just came across self overvalued and gave me a chuckle.

But in any case, yeah, I don't want to be the barking dog here.

 

[pablolie]

What would be even better is if this topic returned to be about the NAD M23, a product I have interest in and hence would like to read about when this thread claims to have new posts...

 

[PJ 1]

What would be even better is if this topic returned to be about the NAD M23, a product I have interest in and hence would like to read about when this thread claims to have new posts...

The downside of forums. But the upside is being able to complain about forums not sticking on topic and creating more notifications. I often wondered how people get to thousands of messages. I now have my answer.

I had a chance at a used M23 and am wondering what kind of warranty NAD offers for second hand items. Some state it is transferable, others say no. Anyone with experience either way still reading? Thanks.

 

[pablolie]

The downside of forums. But the upside is being able to complain about forums not sticking on topic and creating more notifications. I often wondered how people get to thousands of messages. I now have my answer.

The answer is simply time. And in product threads I stick to that, and abandon the topic for a while when it drifts away. We have lost some good forum members over fatigue due to arguing uselessly.

I had a chance at a used M23 and am wondering what kind of warranty NAD offers for second hand items. Some state it is transferable, others say no. Anyone with experience either way still reading? Thanks.

My experience is mixed. I had an M22 that developed issues a few weeks after warranty expired. NAD took it back and sent me a brand spanking new one. So that was nice. OTOH with a NAD D7050 that I set up at my girlfriend's, they simply refer you to a list of local repair shops - none of which seemed too thrilled about fixing the issue, and quoted either unavailability or a repair price that made me simply buy a used "like new" one on Audiogon at a lower price than the repair would have cost. I like the performance of NAD products, but I am not a fan of the temperamental touch power buttons, especially since it seems they stop working with some regularity.

 

[WaterFlame]

Wow, impressive how one word can lead to 2 pages of discussions.

Anyway, going back to Nad M23, i got tempted by the price for a demo unit and bought it for my second system to drive Dynaudio Evoke 20. Kef r5 are still not sold, tried with those too and m23 sounds great with both.

I will just say it sounds transparent and will reserve extensive comparisons with c298 i also had to myself. I can just say that based on the measurements alone m23 has the best power supply of all the Purifi and Hypex class d versions. Also multitone is as good as that of topping d90 se dac! Most here will say it does not matter and not audible and I will not argue since I no longer have c298 or Boxem or Nilai to compare. I can say that I sold c298 because i felt it lacked decay of notes. Was my perception biased? Perhaps, but I was quite curious to discover after selling c298 that multiple reviewers commented on the same. I had not read those reviews prior to purchasing c298. Coincidence that several people described c298 issues with exactly the same language? I have no similar complaints with m23 now or had no complaints when i had m23 before.

If money is not an issue, I believe it is one of the best amps out there. Regarding warranty, my unit has 6 years of warranty but only in Norway. It is tranferable to another buyer. So i have no worries with regard to it failing.

 

[Julf]

Wow, impressive how one word can lead to 2 pages of discussions.

This is the Internet after all.

I can say that I sold c298 because i felt it lacked decay of notes.

Just curious, what physical property/trait do you think could cause a lack of decay of notes? The only thing needed to reproduce the decay of a note accurately is constant /linear gain, and if the amp wouldn't be capable of that, there would be other, much more audible issues.

 

[WaterFlame]

This is the Internet after all.



Just curious, what physical property/trait do you think could cause a lack of decay of notes? The only thing needed to reproduce the decay of a note accurately is constant /linear gain, and if the amp wouldn't be capable of that, there would be other, much more audible issues.

C298 had gain adjustment on the back but it was not a switch between low medium high but continuous adjustment. It could be that it was not fully linear at the position i used.

 

[Julf]

C298 had gain adjustment on the back but it was not a switch between low medium high but continuous adjustment. It could be that it was not fully linear at the position i used.

As in some sort of dynamic gain control (compression/expansion)?

 

[WaterFlame]

As in some sort of dynamic gain control (compression/expansion)?

No, it is variable gain from 8,5 db to 28,5db, looks like potentiometer is used there. So there might be some channel imbalance in different gain settings. I am sure I am nitpicking here.