Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[welwynnick]

Can someone recommend a multichannel power amplifier with AV10 that is also good for 2 channel listening too ? Thanks in advance

In principle you could use any good power amp, but what do you think is wrong with the Marantz AMP10? I think I share your doubts, but just wanted to flush them out.

 

[Vacceo]

Noted with thanks. However, the only review I keep seeing is the Marantz combo. I hope some AV10 owners are using other brand of multichannel amp with more favourable results,especially on 2 channel listening ! Right now I am using an old Krell S1500 plus a Emotiva XPA5, for all 9 channels.

Apollon, MacIntosh, NAD and some other manufacturers make very good Hypex and Purifi multichannel amps. Cannot go wrong with those.

Not that they will be audibly better than the Amp10, though; but they may push more watts or get slightly cooler.

 

[peng]

Noted with thanks. However, the only review I keep seeing is the Marantz combo. I hope some AV10 owners are using other brand of multichannel amp with more favourable results,especially on 2 channel listening ! Right now I am using an old Krell S1500 plus a Emotiva XPA5, for all 9 channels.

Unless you really have such high output requirements for all channels, it seems to me the amp10 is not a good choice just because it physically matches the AV10. There are other class D amps with comparable output capabilities or even better, such as many Purifi or Hypex based amps. Nord, Audiophonics, buckeyeamps are some good examples:

Review and Measurements of Nord One NC500 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Nord One Hypex NC500 class-D module based power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member who recently purchased it. Nord is a British company so lists the cost of the Nord One as £ 979 or US $1,250 as of this writing. For that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The amps you are using will likely sound very similar to the amps mentioned, but they may be noisier if you have a very quiet room. It is not that they are noisy amp, not at all, but those class amps mentioned are very quiet, based on specs and measurements.

 

[exm]

Noted with thanks. However, the only review I keep seeing is the Marantz combo. I hope some AV10 owners are using other brand of multichannel amp with more favourable results,especially on 2 channel listening ! Right now I am using an old Krell S1500 plus a Emotiva XPA5, for all 9 channels.

I'm using the ATI AT 330x amplifier, which was recently released. It's a fantastic amp available in 2-8 channels. However, I recommend to focus on the front 3, and perhaps side surrounds with a new amp (so get a 3 or 5 channel) and re-use original amps for other channels. If you want something new for your non-floors amps, look into a hypex ncx500 or nc252mp (depending how much power you need) amp. Buckeye or Nord are 2 excellent resources.

 

[Vacceo]

Unless you really have such high output for all channels, it seems to me the amp10 is not a good choice just because it physically matches the AV10. There are other class D amps with comparable output capabilities or even better, such as many Purifi or Hypex based amps. Nord, Audiophonics, buckeyeamps are some good examples:

Review and Measurements of Nord One NC500 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Nord One Hypex NC500 class-D module based power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member who recently purchased it. Nord is a British company so lists the cost of the Nord One as £ 979 or US $1,250 as of this writing. For that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The amps you are using will likely sound very similar to the amps mentioned, but they may be noisier if you have a very quiet room. It is not that they are noisy amp, not at all, but those class amps mentioned are very quiet, based on specs and measurements.

From Audioholics data, with the Amp10 you get 16 channels of 96 db SINAD at 200 watts. At such amount of channels, I think it´s a very nice deal even though you can get better fidelity and power with other choices. Still, 16 channels of CD quality sound guaranteed...

 

[welwynnick]

Still, 16 channels of CD quality sound guaranteed...

True, but the AV10 and AMP10 ought to be providing high resolution audio.

 

[Vacceo]

True, but the AV10 and AMP10 ought to be providing high resolution audio.

True on a technical level, but do you perceive resolution beyond CD with normal content and usual listening? Some people do, I´m not going to deny that, but those tests are not the way people typically listen to audio, even in critical listening cases.

If you can reach those peaks systematically; by all means, get a cleaner amp. For the AV10, it´s currently one of the best offers in terms of AVR design. I have only seen it matched by MacIntosh´s MX100 and both surpass several dedicated, stereo preamps.

 

[peng]

From Audioholics data, with the Amp10 you get 16 channels of 96 db SINAD at 200 watts. At such amount of channels, I think it´s a very nice deal even though you can get better fidelity and power with other choices. Still, 16 channels of CD quality sound guaranteed...

I made a typo (missed the word requirements, fixed now). I know the amp10 has great multichannel capability, but I meant unless you have such high power requirements for all channels, there are other choices such as getting high output amp for the LCR, or LCR+a couple surround speakers that are far from the mmp, and/or has low sensitivities, the rest of the speakers may only need 100/150 W 8/4 ohm amps. Nothing wrong going with the Amp10 either.

 

[welwynnick]

True on a technical level, but do you perceive resolution beyond CD with normal content and usual listening? Some people do, I´m not going to deny that, but those tests are not the way people typically listen to audio, even in critical listening cases.

All AV equipment makers have been bragging about high resolution audio for many years - 24 and 32 bit DACs, 96 and 192kHz sample rates, yet they have all been struggling to even reach 16/44 quality all this time. I think everyone has been misled about what they're buying.

Edit: And they never tell you when the digital audio channels are down-sampled in order to perform bass management or room correction processing.

 

[Vacceo]

I made a typo (missed the word requirements, fixed now), I know the amp10 has great multichannel capability, but I meant unless you have such high power requirements for all channels, there are other choices such as getting high output amp for the LCR, or LCR+a couple surround speakers that are far from the mmp, and/or has low sensitivities, the rest of the speakers may only need 100/150 W 8/4 ohm amps. Nothing wrong going with the Amp10 either.

If you have good enough amps already, I agree I see no point on spending extra. Plug them and have fun!

I would not be able to use 16 channels in my room, that´s for sure. I´m quite happy with 11! However, there is zone 2 and zone 3, so that may actually be interesting to go multiroom with a single device.

All AV equipment makers have been bragging about high resolution audio for many years - 24 and 32 bit DACs, 96 and 192kHz sample rates, yet they have all been struggling to even reach 16/44 quality all this time. I think everyone has been misled about what they're buying.

I do not doubt the gear´s or source resolution; I doubt my capacity to discern it.

 

[dsd4life]

Looks like Lonnie is copying the AV10 Sound United YouTube breakdown:

 

[GXAlan]

Unless you really have such high output requirements for all channels, it seems to me the amp10 is not a good choice just because it physically matches the AV10. There are other class D amps with comparable output capabilities or even better, such as many Purifi or Hypex based amps. Nord, Audiophonics, buckeyeamps are some good examples:

But if you look at the Marantz PM-10 which has bridged NC500’s with just a SMPS600, Marantz has a lot more protection features than the standard “reference design” approach used by the smaller builders.

You could say the same about the Lyngdorf MXA-8400.

 

[Descartes]

Looks like Lonnie is copying the AV10 Sound United YouTube breakdown:

These guys are such a ripoff! The CEO has such a big ego and is totally obnoxious!

 

[ac388]

In principle you could use any good power amp, but what do you think is wrong with the Marantz AMP10? I think I share your doubts, but just wanted to flush them out.

Nothing wrong with Amp10 but just want to know if there are better ones out there. Also, I am ready to get a pair of Wilson audio Sabrina X , n want to make sure the new amp can bring out the best of it.

 

[ac388]

Apollon, MacIntosh, NAD and some other manufacturers make very good Hypex and Purifi multichannel amps. Cannot go wrong with those.

Not that they will be audibly better than the Amp10, though; but they may push more watts or get slightly cooler.

Noted with thanks. Only McIntosh n NAD are available in HK. However, based on my past experience, NAD is a cut below of what I already had. Maybe I will give McIntosh a try.

 

[ac388]

I'm using the ATI AT 330x amplifier, which was recently released. It's a fantastic amp available in 2-8 channels. However, I recommend to focus on the front 3, and perhaps side surrounds with a new amp (so get a 3 or 5 channel) and re-use original amps for other channels. If you want something new for your non-floors amps, look into a hypex ncx500 or nc252mp (depending how much power you need) amp. Buckeye or Nord are 2 excellent resources.

Yes, I had the Krell driving my 3 front channels but the amp is getting old n channel is breaking down one by one. I am using a full set of M&K now but thinking to get a pair of Wilson audio Sabrina X for the front 2 channels. Just want to make sure the new amp will bring out the best of it. Thanks for mentioning ATI since a friend here recommend the 1827 series to me. It’s Class AB which should sound warmer than Class D amp.

 

[rynberg]

Looks like Lonnie is copying the AV10 Sound United YouTube breakdown:

"Hey, let's all sit around and show off the guts from another multi-thousand dollar processor that won't work properly for its entire existence. Wonder how many customers with Helsinki syndrome we can get to buy it?"

 

[dlaloum]

Nothing wrong with Amp10 but just want to know if there are better ones out there. Also, I am ready to get a pair of Wilson audio Sabrina X , n want to make sure the new amp can bring out the best of it.

"Better" is a value judgement...

Lots of amps out there that can do the job... possibly a smaller subset of those will do it to a certain defined level of performance

• what SINAD are you after?
• How much Power do you need?
• What speakers are you planning on driving? (what is their impedance / EPDR profile)
• How many channels do you need?
• Does it have to be a single amp, or are you fine with multiple amps?
  • It isn't uncommon to have one amp for the Mains, and a different one for the surround and height speakers (which typically are much easier to drive, as well as requiring a lot less power)
• What are your aesthetic criteria?
• How will you be mounting / Installing it?
  • is this going into a lounge room type setup? (prideful equipment located centrally in "center stage"...)
  • is this going into a HT setup, with a hidden equipment cabinet? (aesthetics may be less important in this case, a lot of professional HT installers use things like the Crown of JBL amps....)

As an example - Lexicon's DD8 - was an 8 channel amp that was well regarded (don't think it is available any more) - but internally, it is basically a badge engineered Crown Drivecore amp...

The Crown Drivecore amps are a family of amps that are very capable - their SINAD is however not state of the art... (but well beyond audibility levels) - however they do look like pro installation or PA amps... which is the main market they sell into. (The JBL commercial installation series amps are badge engineered Crown Drivecore amps too)

If you are looking at SOTA performance levels (whether the difference is audible or not...) - then you may be considering something like the Benchmark AHB1.... but that is stereo only. You can do like some have, and purchase a suite of the AHB1's, or you could run a single one for the mains and then a multichannel amp like a multichannel Crown Drivecore amp for the rest.

There is a never ending smorgasbord of options out there!

 

[dlaloum]

Yes, I had the Krell driving my 3 front channels but the amp is getting old n channel is breaking down one by one. I am using a full set of M&K now but thinking to get a pair of Wilson audio Sabrina X for the front 2 channels. Just want to make sure the new amp will bring out the best of it. Thanks for mentioning ATI since a friend here recommend the 1827 series to me. It’s Class AB which should sound warmer than Class D amp.

Actual DBT tests of ClassD vs ClassA & ClassAB showed them to be identical...

A "good" amp, driven within its design envelope (ie: well matched to the speaker requirements) - will sound the same as any other decent amp doing the same job.

Amp difference in almost all cases can be narrowed down to amps driving loads that are too difficult for them (impedance / phase angle etc...) - or improperly conducted tests (sighted tests, allowing bias, or things like level differences... even 0.5db difference in level can change the subjective impression of a recording.... )

I honestly thought my english Quad amps would sound better than my more commercial PA oriented Crown XLS... but in careful comparisons ... differences were so slight, that picking a preference became a coin toss! (My AVR's internal amps on the other hand, were noticeably inferior... and clearly not capable of driving my speakers properly!)

 

[Vacceo]

Noted with thanks. Only McIntosh n NAD are available in HK. However, based on my past experience, NAD is a cut below of what I already had. Maybe I will give McIntosh a try.

Their class D amps are build on Hypex modules. I haven't seen measurements, but we can make an educated guess from the tests on the modules themselves. They will not be the most affordable amps, though, as all things MacIntosh.