Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

[Ron Texas]

IMO things have been calmer around here for the last few months due to a lack of activity in off the rails off topic threads.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I agree. Through the years, one characteristic that I've noticed about true experts is that they can explain information clearly, including explaining reasons why refutation is incorrect. They can then go on to prove what they have said by means of experiments and/or demonstrations, which is a very important step.

I suppose it's the adult version of show-n'-tell.

Jim

… and if I may add ….

True experts gladly revise their views if presented with new, replicable and proven evidence and do not hold on stubbornly to misconceptions just to serve their ego.

 

[fpitas]

IMO things have been calmer around here for the last few months due to a lack of activity in off the rails off topic threads.

I suspect the elimination of a bunch of troll puppet accounts helped too. Kudos to our moderators!

 

[Doodski]

IMO things have been calmer around here for the last few months due to a lack of activity in off the rails off topic threads.

The pepper of it all! LoL. It's been about the same but peeps do seem to attempt to keep on subject.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I have not explained myself correctly as I was not implying or stating that ANY particular member has done anything wrong. I have no complaints or accusiation againsts any member of the forum.

Apologies if k sounded incorrect, that was neither my intention or intent.

My point is that in the Audio community there are many self appointed gurus that make all kind of outlandish claims and snake oil. Selling expensive stuff does not make anyone a real expert, sometimes gear is great and worth it, sometimes is just a nice wrapper in a mediocre apparatus. Sensible opinions should be respected, specially if they are backed by data

If so, then I am very curious how this sentence of yours

“ …. some audio luminaires, and not pointing to any member of the forum, have been pedling snake oil encased in a 10000 dollars machine aluminum enclosure for decades and being reverred even after measurements revealed that the products are not what they claim to be. … “

is to be understood.

Sounded like a hidden accusation to me. But please explain. Especially as you had to post it publicly.

 

[kemmler3D]

Our Members have no duty to be kind and gentle with every single person and/or post. Telling the poster the truth and facts is sometimes taken as abrasive or offensive, when it’s just the truth. Thier is a big difference between being direct and factual and being insulting.

New members come here every day to drop in get a few questions answered and they never come back. While the Core Members providing this free high quality content/tech support are here everyday trying to help others get this very complicated Science right. We don’t expect them to bow down and entertain your misunderstandings or misconceptions. If you’re wrong you will be told this pretty swiftly. There is a burden on the new comers to arrive with an open mind and be here under good faith intentions.

In this world we normally get back what we give. If you come here with an attitude or some type of grudge. Expect to be treated in kind to how you present yourself. On the other hand if you come here truly wishing to learn and to intelligently discuss Audio Science you will find a depth of knowledge and experience in Audio Science unmatched anywhere. None of this “human interaction” is complicated unless you intentionally make it so.

Trolls are quickly identified and removed from the collective. As a Community of Science and not feelings and opinions we get a lot of backlash for not blindly believing that there are things about Audio that can not be measured and accounted for by Science and Engineering.

All are welcome to join our community. Bring a positive attitude and you will be greeted in return with a positive Welcome.

I totally agree with this.

However, "a little sugar helps the medicine go down".

In some cases it's clear that someone has come in here with incorrect beliefs and they have a hard time letting go of them, despite being earnestly interested in the truth. In those cases, "Hey, I know this is not intuitive and you will hear differently from a lot of earnest people on a lot of forums, but..." is a world apart from "That's nonsense!". Even if the take-away is the same.

Like you said, nobody's obligated to do their posting with kid gloves as long as they stick to the facts, but a gentle approach can be a lot more persuasive than the direct, brusque one. And after all, aren't we here (at least in part) to persuade people to leave nonsense behind?

 

[ahofer]

Been in the Wilson Alexia thread recently?

 

[kemmler3D]

IMO things have been calmer around here for the last few months due to a lack of activity in off the rails off topic threads.

Oh, that reminds me! Does the drama with Q* and Sam Altman and OpenAI signal the AI apocalypse is nigh?

 

[fpitas]

We seriously need to be able to tag certain people with our own notes, to know to avoid engaging them in future.

 

[fpitas]

Oh, that reminds me! Does the drama with Q* and Sam Altman and OpenAI signal the AI apocalypse is nigh?

Nah. More synthetic drama to force government to step in and regulate.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Nah. More synthetic drama to force government to step in and regulate.

"Synthetic drama" ... I like that! Mind if I borrow that?

Jim

 

[fpitas]

"Synthetic drama" ... I like that! Mind if I borrow that?

Jim

Go for it! I probably stole it anyways.

 

[Doodski]

I totally agree with this.

However, "a little sugar helps the medicine go down".

In some cases it's clear that someone has come in here with incorrect beliefs and they have a hard time letting go of them, despite being earnestly interested in the truth. In those cases, "Hey, I know this is not intuitive and you will hear differently from a lot of earnest people on a lot of forums, but..." is a world apart from "That's nonsense!". Even if the take-away is the same.

Like you said, nobody's obligated to do their posting with kid gloves as long as they stick to the facts, but a gentle approach can be a lot more persuasive than the direct, brusque one. And after all, aren't we here (at least in part) to persuade people to leave nonsense behind?

The inquiries come with a duty to learn. They need to understand that.

 

[fpitas]

The inquiries come with a duty to learn. They need to understand that.

Some just need to learn basic manners.

 

[kemmler3D]

The inquiries come with a duty to learn. They need to understand that.

I'd like a lot of people to understand a lot of things, but at the end of the day you have to work with what you get. If changing minds means we have to be overly gentle when it comes to delivering facts, well, that's what it takes. We can't control who shows up or what their attitude is, we just have to work with it.

That's really why I think a FAQ would be really helpful. "have you read the FAQ?" is a very common refrain on forums that rely on specific norms and basic knowledge. It saves everyone time and turmoil.

 

[BKr0n]

So, this not not quite what I was trying to get across, apologies if I was unclear.

When it comes to designing your own DAC or ADC chips (the most ground-up you can get) the number of companies that do that AND put out speakers or headphones is very limited. It's only the absolute biggest players that could or would consider doing that.

Everyone else does the sensible thing and builds in chips by AKM or ESS or one of the other DAC chip makers. Almost all of the DAC (in the sense of a consumer product) brands do this too. Even Topping is not designing its own chips, just the circuits that go around the chips.


I wouldn't necessarily agree with this. The Hypex amps will do fairly sophisticated DSP with 90-100dB SINAD all day. That's audibly transparent for pretty much any tweeter you'd want to connect to it, i.e. you're not going to hear hiss.

I would also say that meaningful DSP (in the sense of using software to tweak the sound) is not out of reach for anybody.

For example, this little guy will give you DSP capabilities comparable to almost anything on the market: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805766033082.html

To give some idea, you may only need 6 or 7 FIRs (maybe only 3 or 4) and a few bands of PEQ to build something as sophisticated as the KEF LS60. (aside from the feedback circuit - that's pretty advanced for the home builder.) Sure, this is not built into every plate amp, but it's far from being limited to massive conglomerates, either.

Even something as sophisticated as Dirac ART is not out of reach for a serious hobbyist if you know what you're doing and you're willing to do a ton of work. Speaker DSP on the level of D&D 8C - likewise, the principles involved are not out of reach for a serious hobbyist, what puts it out of reach is doing enough measuring and tweaking to get good results. You will need to work on it full-time for weeks or months. Most hobbyists can't treat speaker building as a full-time job. But at the end of the day, it mostly boils down to tweaking delay, phase, frequency response and amplitude. Any DSP unit you might want to use will give you enough control in that regard.

A famous chef will probably use essentially the same salt, flour and butter as a home cook. Results depend 99.5% on knowing what you're doing with the ingredients, not growing your own wheat or milking your own cows.

Hope this makes sense.

It does thank you actually clears a lot up for me. That said, since you seem to have some expertise on the matter, could I pm you with a few questions about this? It's now month 6 of development so definitely not afraid to put the work in lol

 

[Doodski]

I'd like a lot of people to understand a lot of things, but at the end of the day you have to work with what you get. If changing minds means we have to be overly gentle when it comes to delivering facts, well, that's what it takes. We can't control who shows up or what their attitude is, we just have to work with it.

Very, "Triage."

 

[kemmler3D]

It does thank you actually clears a lot up for me. That said, since you seem to have some expertise on the matter, could I pm you with a few questions about this? It's now month 6 of development so definitely not afraid to put the work in lol

Sure, always happy to talk audio, that's why I'm here.

That said, if you have a thread here or at DIYAudio on your project, that's a better place to discuss - I think it's best to keep everything in the open instead of DMs so others might be able to learn from the thread now or in the future.

 

[AdamG]

I totally agree with this.

However, "a little sugar helps the medicine go down".

In some cases it's clear that someone has come in here with incorrect beliefs and they have a hard time letting go of them, despite being earnestly interested in the truth. In those cases, "Hey, I know this is not intuitive and you will hear differently from a lot of earnest people on a lot of forums, but..." is a world apart from "That's nonsense!". Even if the take-away is the same.

Like you said, nobody's obligated to do their posting with kid gloves as long as they stick to the facts, but a gentle approach can be a lot more persuasive than the direct, brusque one. And after all, aren't we here (at least in part) to persuade people to leave nonsense behind?

Yes, well said. TY

 

[BKr0n]

Sure, always happy to talk audio, that's why I'm here.

That said, if you have a thread here or at DIYAudio on your project, that's a better place to discuss - I think it's best to keep everything in the open instead of DMs so others might be able to learn from the thread now or in the future.

Um... I have multiple threads because I'm incredibly squirrely lmao. I will however start a new one since it pertains to more than just my project. With that said, I'll post in the newby section so it can be used as a reference for people to use if they come across it.