Kii THREE Review

[fluid]

Not only that, but the degree of the dip depends on the balance of direct and reflected sound. More reflected sound, and it fills in(partially, a real center is still better). So I don't see how you can compensate for this with a fixed EQ in the source.

It is possible to use a Mid Side EQ process where the sum and difference signals are treated separately.

I do this myself to try and combat the darkening of the centre image that results from having very little early reflections. Purposely adding this into a master wouldn't be a good idea but an unconscious adjustment to spectral balance could be applied.

 

[Blockader]

Does that combo show pattern control down to 100Hz? The 8361A only goes to 300Hz. That 200Hz difference is a lot, going by what I hear from bookshelves vs wide baffle towers anyways (in higher frequencies, of course).

83XX+W371 combo has constant directivity down to 60hz. Quite remarkable.

 

[a|F]

7 pages and I seem to have missed any discussion of crossing the Kii or D&D over to subs. Perhaps that's due to cost and related expectations...?

Could we then expect low distortion @ >100db?

It would be fun to do a shootout with the Salon2's. With and without subs and various volumes.

I can't be the only one in the market for end game speakers and am not yet sold...

 

[Frank Dernie]

7 pages and I seem to have missed any discussion of crossing the Kii or D&D over to subs. Perhaps that's due to cost and related expectations...?

Could we then expect low distortion @ >100db?

It would be fun to do a shootout with the Salon2's. With and without subs and various volumes.

I can't be the only one in the market for end game speakers and am not yet sold...

Given the way they work an off brand sub would probably cause more harm than good I would expect.
The 8C probably both goes low enough and has enough loudness capability, when sited as recommended (ie the way it was designed) not to need one in most rooms and the Kii 3 has the BXT sub, which is compatible with the technology and properly integrated, for bigger rooms.

Any other choice would be a bit silly wouldn't it?

 

[TimVG]

You think mastering engineers are putting a peak in the spectral response of their mixes to compensate for crosstalk cancellation? I am skeptical of that, since the dip they are compensating for goes away with headphones and with center channels, and dips are much less offensive than peaks. Additionally, I listen to a fair amount of music that isn't "mastered" in the traditional sense. Have you read about the process followed when producing telarc disks?

I wouldn't know - and recordings being as variable as they are, I'm not sure if they themselves know
However I'm referring to source material mixed and mastered in stereo - so there is no center channel to speak of. I've also never heard of mastering on headphones save for binaural recordings.

All I'm saying is it's all not as black and white as we would assume. Also as I posted on a previous page, the 'dip' is often the cause of vertical cancellation between drivers in vertically oriented multi-way systems and is under most circumstances, not audible.

Could you link me the Telarc process? Thanks.

 

[BenB]

I wouldn't know - and recordings being as variable as they are, I'm not sure if they themselves know
However I'm referring to source material mixed and mastered in stereo - so there is no center channel to speak of. I've also never heard of mastering on headphones save for binaural recordings.

All I'm saying is it's all not as black and white as we would assume. Also as I posted on a previous page, the 'dip' is often the cause of vertical cancellation between drivers in vertically oriented multi-way systems and is under most circumstances, not audible.

Could you link me the Telarc process? Thanks.

Even if a mastering engineer does his/her mastering on stereo speakers, they will try not to do things that are identified to make their products translate poorly to other forms of playback, such as headphones or surround sound. This has become increasingly important now, with headphone listening being so popular.

Regarding telarc, here's an interesting site that details some of the approaches:

Műszeroldal

However, the most important aspect is this quote you can find on telarc disc inlets:
"During the recording of the digital masters and the subsequent transfer to disc, the signal was not passed through any processing device (i.e., compression, limiting, or equalization) at any step during production."

 

[Absolute]

7 pages and I seem to have missed any discussion of crossing the Kii or D&D over to subs. Perhaps that's due to cost and related expectations...?

Could we then expect low distortion @ >100db?

It would be fun to do a shootout with the Salon2's. With and without subs and various volumes.

I can't be the only one in the market for end game speakers and am not yet sold...

I did experiment with a poor man's version of BXT with the Kii's crossed over at various frequencies. Crossed at 200 hz the sound quality went considerably up as distortion went down by around 20 dB measured at listening position after room correction with Audiolense.
You can probably find pictures, graphs and the discussion if you use the forum search function and kii and/or bxt.

 

[Morla]

Ha-ha I LOVE that control box, except that it is wired, it has a proper volume control and apart from the fact they are touch buttons a selector for each input.

I hate up/down volume buttons.

It is the only reason I would choose Kii over 8C

I prefer to use my apple remote

 

[snowsurfer]

I've been *THIS* close to selling some of my Ethereum for a pair of these for my desktop....maybe one day....

 

[Somafunk]

Never mind selling Ethereum, I have a spare kidney, could also include a chunk of my liver and probably my left bollock if it meant I could get a pair.

 

[jhaider]

I have seriously considered asking @Purité Audio to let me have a demo of the Kii because fitting it into my way of life will be much easier than the 8C which I fear wouldn't get used due to the control interface.

I'm not sure I understand this complaint. Can't you just use 8C (or Kii) as an active speaker and control volume/sources with whatever upstream box you already use?

 

[richard12511]

I did experiment with a poor man's version of BXT with the Kii's crossed over at various frequencies. Crossed at 200 hz the sound quality went considerably up as distortion went down by around 20 dB measured at listening position after room correction with Audiolense.
You can probably find pictures, graphs and the discussion if you use the forum search function and kii and/or bxt.

IIRC, you "upgraded" from Kii Three + BXT to JBL M2? In terms of dynamic capability, how would you say the two systems compare?

 

[Puddingbuks]

I'm not sure I understand this complaint. Can't you just use 8C (or Kii) as an active speaker and control volume/sources with whatever upstream box you already use?

With the 8c you can, I use the Minidsp SHD studio (digital I/O only) for this, so I have a remote control.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I'm not sure I understand this complaint. Can't you just use 8C (or Kii) as an active speaker and control volume/sources with whatever upstream box you already use?

I currently use a Devialet which would not be suitable for this. I very much like the Devialet and the connections it gives suit my use perfectly but it imposes passive speakers. I do have a RME ADI-2 Pro in my study which could be used in this way but doesn't have all the inputs I use in my main system at the moment and doesn't have a remote, never mind one with a rotary volume cointrol...

 

[sweetchaos]

 

[Absolute]

IIRC, you "upgraded" from Kii Three + BXT to JBL M2? In terms of dynamic capability, how would you say the two systems compare?

Not entirely correct, I upgraded from Kii + poor man's version of BXT (two diy subs with 2x10" Scan speak 26w 4558t00 each).

There was a temporary replacement for the Kiis in the form of Klipsch RP160M. I still have the subs, though, just not using them with the M2.

Anyways, Kii BXT has enough capacity to make it a moot point for most of us. It'll go plenty loud enough. The M2 will go a louder, but the difference I feel lies in the impact the M2 is capable of. Gunshots, high-hats etc can have a real physical impact with the M2 that I feel the Kiis can't match.
A compression driver thing?

I don't know. For normal listening levels I wouldn't be able to tell a difference I think.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Interesting data - thanks for your time on this @hardisj .

And you really think someone who can afford the Kali wouldn’t afford to do that?

Eitherway i’m unconvinced that is is a good purchase for a rich person.

For context, it is not at all uncommon for audiophiles in the UK to have the sort of money we're talking about for the Kiis invested in audio equipment in relatively modest rooms. I'm not there myself currently as I'm prioritising paying off my mortgage but I could choose to if I wished and probably will in a few years. The cost of a dramatically 'better room' would by contrast be out of reach for most, including me.

 

[hardisj]

I always thought the 8C was a little better tbh. The reviews seem to confirm that the 8C has better bass output(lower distortion below 100hz). Though there's no compression graph for the 8C? Kind of unfortunate. Kii got the BXT out pretty quick and I'm guessing there was a reason for it.

I wasn’t performing compression tests back when I tested the 8c. But I do plan to add it hopefully this week since I still have the 8c here. I’ve just been finishing up some other tests and haven’t had a chance to do that one yet.

I just ran the additional testing for the 8C. You can find the updated info on my site review of the DD8C but here is the linearity one that most of you will care about. FWIW, I talked with the designer of the 8c and he said they do *not* use a limiter in this speaker.

 

[Sancus]

FWIW, I talked with the designer of the 8c and he said they do *not* use a limiter in this speaker.

Ummmmm does that mean you can blow it up or are the amps not powerful enough to do that? Haha. Unless he just means no stealth limiter and the speakers go into protection if overdriven or something like that, which would be similar to Neumann/Genelec.

I actually find it a bit strange how common stealth limiters are in studio monitors since, if I were mixing, I would really really dislike the idea that the FR could change that severely without the monitor telling me it hit a limit.

Thanks so much for the additional data!!!! Very much appreciated. It does look like the Kii3 bass limit before the 8C do.

 

[abdo123]

I just ran the additional testing for the 8C. You can find the updated info on my site review of the DD8C but here is the linearity one that most of you will care about. FWIW, I talked with the designer of the 8c and he said they do *not* use a limiter in this speaker.

that 8-inch mid-range is really golden. the better frequency response linearity and the no need to bring the tweeter output 2dB lower really makes the D&D the superior speaker.