Kii THREE Review

[BenB]

I think we need to start looking at vertical directivity more. I mean these speakers are for all intents and purposes identically smooth in response, albeit one slightly wider horizontal radiation pattern that the other, but the main difference I can see is the mid to tweeter XO point, the kii at 2khz and the DD8C at 1500(?)hz. This causes a dip in sound power and this would be the main difference one would hear "around the midrange"

Might also explain why the well measured R3's don't wow people as much as the measurements would suggest. The more I measure conventional 2-way 2 driver speakers the more I find myself enjoying the LR4 xo's above 2khz and I seem to loose intelligibility and focus with 2 ways that are LR4 crossed below 2khz. The horizontal measures are perfect, so I can only speculate on the vertical dispersion. I had R3's but sold them on, I found them too forward around that upper mid region no matter what I did.

I've been thinking about this sound power dip. If I recall correctly, our heads introduce something of a power dip when listening to stereo speakers that occurs around the 2 kHz region, which differentiates our perception of the spectral balance of a phantom center image from an actual center speaker. If that's the case, is it better to make a speaker that accentuates a dip we may be used to (kii 3) or one that has a dip somewhere else (8c)?

 

[TimVG]

I've been thinking about this sound power dip. If I recall correctly, our heads introduce something of a power dip when listening to stereo speakers that occurs around the 2 kHz region, which differentiates our perception of the spectral balance of a phantom center image from an actual center speaker. If that's the case, is it better to make a speaker that accentuates a dip we may be used to (kii 3) or one that has a dip somewhere else (8c)?

Don't worry about it. Source material that was mixed/mastered in stereo will (or should) already have tonal adjustments embedded in the recording. This should not be fixed in the loudspeakers. as you will also alter the balance of things that are not panned in the center.

 

[Chrise36]

FWIW - I had the Kii3 and 8C in my room, at the same time for about two weeks and agree with this assessment.

When comparing recordings that were done in rooms that I know well, The Kii's sounded like those rooms while the 8C's had just a bit of coloration to them. Just an unnatural midrange quality that made very different rooms sound much more alike than they are.

Mix translation also went to the Kii's.

We are splitting hairs here for sure, but the 8C's deliver just that extra bit of ear candy that for most listeners would have them win a side by side shootout - which in turn is exactly why I didn't keep them as for both my work, and recreational listening - the Kii's were just more accurate to the source.

Kii's have remained and I'm only visiting speaker forums as I'm considering an Atmos mixing room build and simply can't afford 13 of them.

also fwiw - I had the 8351A's in at the same time. My ears agree with the measurements found in this forum but I just didn't like the tweeter. Some amount of edginess to them that I couldn't live with. They also fell short to the Kii's as far as recordings showing an accurate room tone (for recordings in rooms I've spent a lot of time in).
When you've spend days in a recording space, you get an imprint of that sound. Kii's make my ears feel like they are in that exact room in a way that only my ATC150's could do. I just didn't have space in my new room for my 150's which led to a long speaker testing process that the Kii's won.

my 2cents - which my wife assures me isn't quite worth even 2 cents.

If you have the space which one is more true to the recording? How do you find their difference on elevated spl?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Is that hideous (and wired) control box the only way to remotely control the volume and inputs (except for a pre-amp)?

Ha-ha I LOVE that control box, except that it is wired, it has a proper volume control and apart from the fact they are touch buttons a selector for each input.

I hate up/down volume buttons.

It is the only reason I would choose Kii over 8C

 

[voodooless]

Ha-ha I LOVE that control box, except that it is wired, it has a proper volume control and apart from the fact they are touch buttons a selector for each input.

I hate up/down volume buttons.

I prefer an app. Haven't used any dedicated remote control in years and I love it. Obviously, the implementation must be good. I've had some streamer OS'es with unusable volume controls as well

 

[Absolute]

Whoever discovered app-driven remote functionality as a replacement for a physical remote should be hunted down and tickled to death.

Yep, I mean it. Horrible idea made by cheapskates. I was very happy with Kii Control as a hub installed by the speakers and Apple remote as the volume/source control.

I was extremely unhappy with the shockingly shit app demanded by Devialet Phantom. Horrid experience that I'll never forget.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I prefer an app. Haven't used any dedicated remote control in years and I love it. Obviously, the implementation must be good. I've had some streamer OS'es with unusable volume controls as well

I have mainly stopped using a computer or similar as a source, too many irritating software and firmware changes for me. Not often but more often than I am used to!

I want to switch the stereo on then use it to listen to music, just like I used to do from 1960 until 15 years or so ago and have done now for the last 3 years or so.

It rules out quite a few bells and whistles but now it never irritates the living daylights out of me.

It could be my Asperger's of course.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I was extremely unhappy with the shockingly shit app demanded by Devialet Phantom.

That is why I never play music on my Phantoms.
They sound fantastic but are a PITA to use.

I have seriously considered asking @Purité Audio to let me have a demo of the Kii because fitting it into my way of life will be much easier than the 8C which I fear wouldn't get used due to the control interface.

 

[Soniclife]

I have seriously considered asking @Purité Audio to let me have a demo of the Kii because fitting it into my way of life will be much easier than the 8C which I fear wouldn't get used due to the control interface.

If you could route the control box to your listening position you would love it, it comes with a very long ethernet cable to go to the master speaker, the volume control is nicer in my opinion than the Devialet one.

 

[Cadguy]

Ha-ha I LOVE that control box, except that it is wired, it has a proper volume control and apart from the fact they are touch buttons a selector for each input.

I hate up/down volume buttons.

It is the only reason I would choose Kii over 8C

The tethered remote of the Kii3 reminds me of TVs of the 60s with their wired remotes. I would prefer a small control/input/output unit close to my sources with a separate wireless remote. As it stands I would have to run the wires from the Kii3 control under a sofa over to my equipment rack.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can use a remote the slim Apple unit for example to control the Kii ‘Control’ use the control to set all the speakers parameters then use a remote to select volume, input, mute etc.
Keith

 

[Frank Dernie]

You can use a remote the slim Apple unit for example to control the Kii ‘Control’ use the control to set all the speakers parameters then use a remote to select volume, input, mute etc.
Keith

How would you connect an analogue source Keith?
As you know I am back to CDs again and play the odd LP and even still have a FM tuner

 

[Soniclife]

How would you connect an analogue source Keith?
As you know I am back to CDs again and play the odd LP and even still have a FM tuner

Direct into the back of the Kii, and let it do the A2D, if you have multiple analogue sources you would need a normal preamp or switch box.

 

[Purité Audio]

Frank you set the Kii’s XLR input ( on the rear of each speaker) to analogue and then just connect the analogue source directly , select XLR on the ‘control’ and that’s it, I connect my turntable that way, computer into the USB and TV into the optical connections on the rear of the control , use the Apole remote to attenuate , you don’t even have to turn the Kiis on they switch on automatically when they sense a source.
They are the most complete system.
BW Keith

 

[tktran303]

The pedant in me can't help but clarify that it is soffit mounting and not soft-fit, which sounds more like an ear plug

Thanks for your correction fluid,

Yes it’s soffit I’m been doing it for clients for years.

Many of my posts on ASR and other forums are typed directly onto a phone, and sometimes I dictate directly via Siri. I have to go back and edit all the grammatical and spelling errors but some escape me. Even doing so sometimes I make many errors, or even miss a word or two which completely changes the meaning.

I’d rather be designing speakers than just chatting about it. Over time I’ve learnt to comment on things that really matter (to me), and avoid correcting people because people don’t like to be corrected and it is sometimes perceived as an argument or combative language if not done in a sensitive manner. But I will probably remove myself from some other forums where there’s too low a SINAD. OTOH I like chatting to people who I know that they know what they’re doing, like Erin, who’s been around the block and I can see have a natural growth mindset, and know that science is ever changing.

What we know today may be “wrong” in 10 years but problem is we don’t know which part.

(Original below)
Thanks fluid,
All my posts on ASR and otherwise are tight directly onto a phone which I don’t dictate to and sometimes there’s lots of grammatical and spelling errors thank you Siri

 

[voodooless]

thank you Siri

Thanks for nothing Oh well, the keyboard isn’t ideal either I guess.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Kii Three:
Preference Score is 7.7 and would be 8.3 with a perfect subwoofer.
Preference Score is 8.1 with an EQ and would be 8.7 with a perfect subwoofer and the same EQ.
Bass extension (LFX): 20Hz at -6dB

Dutch, Dutch 8C:
Preference Score is 7.4 and would be 8.0 with a perfect subwoofer.
Preference Score is 7.8 with an EQ and would be 8.5 with a perfect subwoofer and the same EQ.
Bass extension (LFX): 20Hz at -6dB

Kef LS 50 Meta:
Preference Score is 5.7 and would be 7.7 with a perfect subwoofer.
Preference Score is 6.4 with an EQ and would be 8.5 with a perfect subwoofer and the same EQ.

 

[BenB]

Don't worry about it. Source material that was mixed/mastered in stereo will (or should) already have tonal adjustments embedded in the recording. This should not be fixed in the loudspeakers. as you will also alter the balance of things that are not panned in the center.

You think mastering engineers are putting a peak in the spectral response of their mixes to compensate for crosstalk cancellation? I am skeptical of that, since the dip they are compensating for goes away with headphones and with center channels, and dips are much less offensive than peaks. Additionally, I listen to a fair amount of music that isn't "mastered" in the traditional sense. Have you read about the process followed when producing telarc disks?

 

[Sancus]

I am skeptical of that, since the dip they are compensating for goes away with headphones and with center channels, and dips are much less offensive than peaks.

Not only that, but the degree of the dip depends on the balance of direct and reflected sound. More reflected sound, and it fills in(partially, a real center is still better). So I don't see how you can compensate for this with a fixed EQ in the source.

 

[fluid]

Over time I’ve learnt to comment on things that really matter (to me), and avoid correcting people because people don’t like to be corrected and it is sometimes perceived as an argument or combative language if not done in a sensitive manner.

I agree, I do this more and more over time but sometimes letting bad information stand isn't good. Your autocorrect issue was not one of them but for some reason it drew me in.

OTOH I like chatting to people who I know that they know what they’re doing, like Erin, who’s been around the block and I can see have a natural growth mindset, and know that science is ever changing.

Hopefully I fit more into this category than the one above