So they don't get loud at all?
Pretty disappointing especially at that price
LYD48 has considerably less amplifier than the 708 (50/80/80 vs 250/250) and isn't waveguided at all which could create some directivity weirdness around the crossovers. That said, for nearfield, I'd probably prefer it, as I find 3 ways to generally be superior to even the best 2 ways.overpriced right
dyna lyd48 why not
I am glad you are pointing this out for folks.No, I definitely wouldn't say they "don't get loud at all". What I meant by that is they don't play music with deep bass loud enough to satisfy me sitting at a 3.5m distance. My main room is also open to the kitchen and entryway.
On music with no deep bass, they get almost rock concert loud. Louder than I listen. Also, with the RS2s helping them, I've seen over 113dB at the listening position with red lights of despair.
*Edit: Btw, I disagree with Amir's score for the 8341. I think he was judging it by a metric it's not entirely designed for. IMO deep bass is what limits these speakers, but I also think external subs are generally required anyway for top tier bass, regardless of the speakers. IMO, these speakers are about as good as it gets with subwoofer help, but full range, there are better(bigger) options for not much more.
That would at least point to the direction IMD takes in the speaker.You could do a multitone measurement like Sound & Recording does.
Most of the JBL Harmonic distortion is 2nd order and not really that high and thus extremely hard to hear.Interesting, since the KH310 has less distortion at 96 dB SPL than the 708p.
I ran this for a while. Here is an example:You could do a multitone measurement like Sound & Recording does.
But that's not a problem of the method but that most people like you and I measure it in normal reflective rooms. Interpretation isn't also easy on first sight but it can quite well show relative differences like below:It is extremely hard to interpret because the frequency response and hence the peaks change. And with it, so does intermodulation. High noise floor also masks a lot.
The 96 dB measurements of both clearly show that the 708 is more "comfortable" (low distorting) at the region below 70 Hz while above the 310 is superior, so what plays louder depends on the frequency content of the music heard.@thewas @richard12511 the capability of playing louder without major distortion as @amirm already wrote is not displayed in the measurements.
Again, when woofers of both are pushed at high SPLs like above shown 96dB the woofer of the Neumann will most probably really show higher IMD like you say, but being a 3-way the high IMD will limited to the bass (650 Hz crossover frequency) and won't muddy the much more audible and important mids like it will on the 708 (1700 Hz crossover frequency). It seems also that Amir noticed that, commenting with "non happy at this level" on the 708P measurement.In a multi tone test you would see this much more easily, since the harmonics alone will cause a lot of trouble. The jbl might sound a bit stressed @96 dB spl but it is quite okay /good since the masking of distortion at these higher level will also shift towards can't be perceived. As I said earlier hd is harder to interpret and you probably don't see all the major problems at all.
And you couldn't show those differences using THD?But that's not a problem of the method but that most people like you and I measure it in normal reflective rooms. Interpretation isn't also easy on first sight but it can quite well show relative differences like below:
Unfortunately while a higher HD usually means also higher IMD, IMD does not only depend on HD so while its an indicator, its not enough.And you couldn't show those differences using THD?
Most music does not have the most power below 50-60 Hz where the Neumanns distortions starts rising above the JBL one, for example below statistic of the max level found in several tracks (red is the max and blue is the average):@thewas the frequency content of almost any music has the most power in the lower frequencies and the bass distortion of the jbl will be relatively okay until about 104dB spl.
You hear also the higher IMD in the mids, what also Amir did and commented with "not happy" but we are repeating ourselves now and only an IMD measurement of both will finally reveal the truth.Your interpretation of the implications and comparison of distortions 2kHz -35dB vs. 50Hz -0dB is also wrong. The second implies that the speaker is at its execution limits. Which is not good at all. You hear the difference easily. So did Amir in the test....
I think the +100 dB ability is more important than we intuitively might think. If we aim for +20 dB headroom for transients, that's 80 db averaged.Just a remark - ability to play loud well above 100dB is just one feature. At home for typical hifi listening we don't need that. But for HT or PA or someone addicted to unhealthy loud listening spl, one must choose the loudspeaker - amplifier system accordingly.
I have noticed that Amir wants speakers and headphones to play loud with elevated bass, and this reflects to his rating with panthers. On-axis response smoothness and directivity ratings are not enough either, the evaluator must dig deeper and be open with his predictions and preferences. This is why we must study every "test" with or without measurements critically and reflect the verdict to reviewrs's preferences! And then adjust that to your own predictions and preferences and purpose of use.
Regarding the high price of JBL 70x series or alike, we must remember that they include dsp and network, they are ready for PA installations in conference rooms and mid-size HT, professional installations. 8 series Genelecs are meant for near-midfield monitoring, not for PA.