PMC result6 Monitor Review

[richard12511]

I mean, if the showroom sculpting of the sound isn’t a thing, and doesn’t really work because people prefer a neutral sound, then what are these companies like B&W doing Insulting those frequency responses.
It would seem to be a total waste of time.
(except that they also seem to be selling lots of speakers doing it).

It could also simply be a business decision; they think they can sell more speakers by grabbing a larger slice of a smaller pie.

Say you have 7 speaker shootout consisting of a Revel , a KEF, a Magico, a Grimm Audio, a D&D, a Kii, and a B&W. It wouldn't surprise me if the B&W ends up selling the best, since it's the only one shooting at a different target. Revel, KEF, and Magico are all basically shooting for the same target, and doing it quit well. 80% of people might prefer those more neutral speakers, but they also might be splitting the vote.

Take a regular 100 person sample, where 80% of those people prefer a neutral sound, and those folks are asked to pick a favorite speaker. It might play out something like

14 people prefer the Revel
14 people prefer the KEF
13 people prefer the Magico
13 people prefer the Grimm
13 people prefer the D&D
13 people prefer the Kii
20 people prefer the B&W

Similar to how a really popular political party with two really strong political candidates can lose to a much less popular party with just a single candidate.

Not saying this is definitely what's going on, but it might be, and it could also help explain why each generation of B&W seems to be straying further and further from neutral. Perhaps they see the industry as a whole is going more and more towards neutral designs, making that a much more competitive(and thus less profitable) target. IME, these bat style curves are often quite unique, even amongst themselves.

With a bat curve, you have more ways to differentiate yourself from other bats. You can change where the left ear is, where the right ear is, and where the head is. I imagine it's harder for neutral speakers to differentiate themselves from other neutral speakers.


As for the pepsi vs coke thing, I ran into a similar issue with beer blind taste tests. It took me forever(like 50+ blinds) to realize that with just 1 or 2 sips from each glass, I was most of the time just preferring the strongest flavor.

 

[Mart68]

I had a demo of PMC Prodigy 1, expected it to be terrible, it was not. But look at the on axis FR:



For a tiny passive two-way distortion is quite low and it has the impression of bass. Lots of people want - or can only have - small speakers, but they want bass - or at least the impression that there is some 'body' to the sound.

Probably you could find recordings that would trip it up but it was not an unpleasant speaker to listen to.

Incompetent design or very cleverly judged to deliver what that segment of the market is after?

 

[Jim Taylor]

Incompetent design or very cleverly judged to deliver what that segment of the market is after?

I have always believed that many speakers were designed to capture listeners' attentions is the short run, but that the same speaker will not satisfy in the long run. I also believe that examples of people buying new speakers every few years, over and over again, is indicative of this.

But I could be wrong.

 

[kharan]

First, Harman's studies reveal that people are a lot less discriminatory with regards to neutrality in a stereo environment, in other words, a lot more people prefer coloured speakers in stereo.

Second, Harman's studies show increased preference for neutral speakers with trained listeners, and less pronounced preference for neutral speakers with untrained listeners. The caveat is that the training they underwent was for neutrality, so it is expected that they show this preference even in a blind setting. In other words, a listener with no preconception about what neutral is supposed to sound like is less likely to show preference for neutral speakers than we think.

All this tells me that while there can be circumstances where people exhibit a preference for neutral speakers, this is not universal. Add in mastering decisions and the circle of confusion, then preference for neutral speakers is not universal.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

It's interesting to me that with less experienced persons that I know, a few respond with excitement when hearing accuracy( flat FR and low resonance) but the rest of them are either puzzled or think something is wrong. After about 10 years of seeing one friend twice a year, he finally noticed

 

[bachatero]

In the US this piece of junk will now cost around $3750 thanks to Trump's new 25% tariff

 

[wwenze]

It's not easy to get new customers when all the speakers with w/sub preference scores over 6 sound acceptable, and after EQ they are indistinguishable

So to differentiate your product, make something with a preference score of 5 (i.e. something is way different) and convince your customer that is superior.

 

[goat76]

I have always believed that many speakers were designed to capture listeners' attentions is the short run, but that the same speaker will not satisfy in the long run. I also believe that examples of people buying new speakers every few years, over and over again, is indicative of this.

But I could be wrong.

I think the constant changes of speakers have more to do with the market hyping up the next best thing. Just look at all those people waiting for their favorite KEF speaker model to get the Meta-treatment, even though their current KEF already measures well enough. The new model will likely sound a bit different, but that has probably more to do with a different voicing than anything to do with the Meta technology. People simply love their new shiny toys.

 

[Cadillacofminds]

Maybe most people's/showrooms' setups situating the listener significantly off-axis horizontally, and idk also vertically somewhat, tends to mean that presenting a graph of a single axis frequency response is never gonna do much to resolve the broad questions about the speaker market..., just a thought, from someone real ignorant about speaker engineering and sales

 

[amirm]

Maybe most people's/showrooms' setups situating the listener significantly off-axis horizontally, and idk also vertically somewhat, tends to mean that presenting a graph of a single axis frequency response is never gonna do much to resolve the broad questions about the speaker market..., just a thought, from someone real ignorant about speaker engineering and sales

Many measurement angles are provided in the review and full data is enclosed in a zip file.

 

[Cadillacofminds]

Many measurement angles are provided in the review and full data is enclosed in a zip file.

aaah, I should have been clearer, I was referring to people posting from Hifinews and such

 

[Cadillacofminds]

Don't get around much, but (embarassingly) I have spent some time watching recordings of speakers on youtube, and it sorta seems like it's rare speakers to be toed in 30 degrees

 

[Cadillacofminds]

Maybe people recording their personal setups playing aren't the most knowledgable consumers? Lol

(What about how well one has implemented room correction, can say a phone recording capture that?)

 

[Cadillacofminds]

At least excluding speakers meant for studio use, an single axis graph might not tell you how insane it is that PMC or B&W are producing what they are

 

[wwenze]

Video recordings of speakers are weird, really

I once recorded speaker A and speaker B

In real life, speaker A sounds like speaker A, speaker B sounds like speaker B

Playing back the video, speaker A sounds like speaker B, speaker B sounds like speaker A

I stopped caring about videos since

 

[amirm]

Don't get around much, but (embarassingly) I have spent some time watching recordings of speakers on youtube, and it sorta seems like it's rare speakers to be toed in 30 degrees

People tend to think having speakers straight out looks nicer even though in most cases, that is the wrong thing to do.

 

[Doodski]

Maybe people recording their personal setups playing aren't the most knowledgable consumers? Lol

(What about how well one has implemented room correction, can say a phone recording capture that?)

Anytime a transducer/microphone is used to record audio there is loss of quality, imaging, space and acoustics. YouTube recordings of audio systems are very lacking in quality even if they sound just OK.

 

[Cadillacofminds]

People tend to think having speakers straight out looks nicer even though in most cases, that is the wrong thing to do.

Seens perpendicular to the wall is very popular, even in demo-rooms, lol

 

[Cadillacofminds]

WAF probably has a lot to do with no toe-in's popularity

 

[richard12511]

First, Harman's studies reveal that people are a lot less discriminatory with regards to neutrality in a stereo environment, in other words, a lot more people prefer coloured speakers in stereo.

I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation of those studies. I agree with your first statement ("Harman's studies reveal that people are a lot less discriminatory with regards to neutrality in a stereo environment"), but I'd phrase your second statement more like "in other words, most people still prefer neutral speakers in stereo, but that preference is less strong".

Second, Harman's studies show increased preference for neutral speakers with trained listeners, and less pronounced preference for neutral speakers with untrained listeners. The caveat is that the training they underwent was for neutrality, so it is expected that they show this preference even in a blind setting. In other words, a listener with no preconception about what neutral is supposed to sound like is less likely to show preference for neutral speakers than we think.

Again, I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation. My interpretation is that both trained and untrained listeners generally prefer the same thing(neutral speakers), but trained listeners simply need less listening time to realize that preference. Untrained listeners might have to listen to the same song 4 or 5 times to decide which speaker they'll prefer, but they'll still prefer the same speaker that the trained listeners picked after 1 or 2 listens.

All this tells me that while there can be circumstances where people exhibit a preference for neutral speakers, this is not universal. Add in mastering decisions and the circle of confusion, then preference for neutral speakers is not universal.

I agree with this. While most do prefer neutral speakers, it's not universal. The blind listening tests I've hosted and or been a part of have never produced a unanimous winner.