I just watched another video by Cameron where they are talking about headphones and how they do NOT do soundstage anywhere near what speakers do. Im thinking room reflections are what his headphones are missing.
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How NOT to set up speakers and room treatment ( Goldensound)
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Direct sound only, composite sound, which? Measuring is how to do this. Even a wall at 'n' feet isn't necessarily "that far away" if it resonates, because that effectively changes its distance.
...and a severe phase relationship. It must be horrible with some rooms.
No, it doesn't have to move very far, all it has to do is shift the phase of the reflection, and it can be up to half wavelength in effect.
Doesn't matter. The wall doesn't move that far, if it's resonant, it stores energy and returns it later. Necessarily.
I prefer to measure.
You have the gear to make such measurements? Like a Klippel & and other test and measurement gear? How deep does that reach? I'm not really up to speed on what your specialization or general specialty is. I saw you commenting about digital theory and it's intricacies. I'm not that deep into digital theory like you but I dig it. It's interesting.
Hmm. Where is that talk?
https://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2012/jj_jan/ is probably the only handy thing that would explain how I measure.
There are a couple of papers in the AES as well, but you'd need to be able to access them, which could be hard. I can get the links, but they may or may not help.
AES E-Library » DTS Multichannel Audio Playback System: Characterization and Correction
Room correction methods are commonplace in the home audio-video equipment. One goal of these systems is to correct frequency deviation of loudspeaker/room response from some desired target curve. Unfortunately this frequency correction may be appropriate only in small area around the microphone...
AES E-Library » A Low Complexity Perceptually Tuned Room Correction System
In many listening situations using loudspeakers, the actualities of room arrangements and the acoustics of the listening space combine to create a situation where the audio signal is unsatisfactorily rendered from the listener's position. This is often true not only for computer-monitor...
Needless to say that's old work, but that's what I'm limited to saying at the minute, although my more recent work is in analyzing the perceptual cues in a space and then synthesizing them, there is overlap I can't go into.
Its seems to be cleared up now indeed..
I don't agree that "killing" the first reflection makes the soundstage narrow. It is easy to prove that is not the case if one test songs that one knows have a wide soundstage.
How "dry" one want the room is a preference. My room is between 180-250 ms (100Hz and up) and I like it. That is my preference.
Bruckner 9? Wow, i m really impressed. I usually listen to it before Mahler's 9 and 10
Surely, listening at home is not the real think and depends on physical room correction as well as software. This is why my listening is sometimes happening directly from a cd player, but other times from computers where i have tons of room correction inside my DAWs. I rip the cd to whichever computer disk. I take the file into a DAW and i do room environment in the DAW, then listen. HOWEVER: no matter how good correction may be, it's finally to the speakers to render mid highs and highs smoothly. When i m writing about this on any thread, i am referring to the often harsh and brittle digital sound of violin groups, trumpets, oboes, unclear crash or riding cymbals, etc, for ex a sweeping long melodic line, such as In most of Bruckner's second movements, Brahms' First, first movement's very beginning, Fourth second movement (the E major line, first violins) or Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake, or Shoenberg's Peleas, etc, the number of such lines is innumerable. So, with me it's not even getting to the real thing, but firstly and foremostly the quality of high frequencies. This is why, when i was 16, my first move was to expressly modify the expensive tape recorder my father bought on the occasion of my performing a Beethoven Sonata in front of quite a large audience. He was, of course, quite unhappy about my delving into electronics when i knew nothing about it. Faithfully yours, P.
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All music recordings are artifice, no matter what your dad may have thought about fidelity ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)Bruckner 9? Wow, i m really impressed. I usually listen to it before Mahler's 9 and 10
Surely, listening at home is not the real think and depends on physical room correction as well as software. This is why my listening is sometimes happening directly from a cd player, but other times from computers where i have tons of room correction inside my DAWs. I rip the cd to whichever computer disk. I take the file into a DAW and i do room environment in the DAW, then listen. HOWEVER: no matter how good correction may be, it's finally to the speakers to render mid highs and highs smoothly. When i m writing about this on any thread, i am referring to the often harsh and brittle digital sound of violin groups, trumpets, oboes, unclear crash or riding cymbals, etc, for ex a sweeping long melodic line, such as In most of Bruckner's second movements, Brahms' First, first movement's very beginning, Fourth second movement (the E major line, first violins) or Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake, or Shoenberg's Peleas, etc, the number of such lines is innumerable. So, with me it's not even getting to the real thing, but firstly and foremostly the quality of high frequencies. This is why, when i was 16, my first move was to expressly modify the expensive tape recorder my father bought on the occasion of my performing a Beethoven Sonata in front of quite a large audience. He was, of course, quite unhappy about my delving into electronics when i knew nothing about it. Faithfully yours, P.
Sure, but then you probably haven't heard music recordings done on two track willy studer pro, broadcast grade recordings and reproduced on the same equipment in a radio studio. It was in 1967 and quality breathtaking.
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I did not have that actual experience back then, it's true. Audio recording and playback can of course be very impressive. And good artifice can be breathtaking. My point is that there is something distinctly artificial about putting a full orchestra into a home living room regardless of the qualities of the equipment. It's a bit like putting an elephant, or a large fireworks display, or an infantry battalion in a living room.
I agree. I think that multichannel sound, say 8, judiciously distributed, would help create a more realistic environment. I never said the recorded ensemble can equate the real environment, just that it can come pretty darn close if one has the possibility to build a good acoustic environment for the speakers. By multichannel, i understand that the different orchestral departments be grouped to separate channels, with the interdepartmental mandatory acoustic leaks, or separate channels dedicated to the ensemble as a whole, just as is done with the so called 'house' microphone(s) at recording time. Again, i m just saying recordings will come closer to the real thing, and that it'll depend on the listener to create a more or less optimal environment at his/her venue. P.
Multichannel sound, done approximately right, can quite nicely move you into another acoustic space in your living room. The problem with multichannel sound presently is that production for multichannel sound is still approaching the renaissance, and is still in the late dark ages.
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