• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Help in devising my new set up (Klipsch the Nines? AE1? Audiophonic amp & Wharfedale Linton? etc... )

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
Happy New Year to everyone !

This is my first post, I've spent the best part of this week going deep down a few rabbit holes, and mining this forum for info, I can now hopefully ask my questions in not too shambolic a manner :)

I am planning the set up for my new house, which will be completed in a few months.
I'll listen to music only - no home theatre - in a quite large living room.
I've added a screenshot of the 3D rendering below.
Screenshot 2023-12-31 at 22.35.36.png


The loft-style room itself is ~8x13 meters, comprising of lounge/dining area/kitchen, with 3.4m high ceilings. The long sides are glass sliding doors.
The speakers will be placed on each side of the wood fireplace. Floorstanders in front of the ledge would make moving around quite awkward, not to mention the fire hazard, so I've opted for bookshelf speakers, which can sit on top of the ledge (60cm high). They can sit there without stands, as they should be very close to ear level for people sitting opposite on the sofa. As the ledge is only 60cm deep, maybe a front ported or sealed design would be better?
Listening distance, if seated right in front, is about 4 meters.
I might complement the bookshelves with a subwoofer, depending on bookshelf range, budget… mood .

I’m looking for loudspeakers that can provide a wide enough soundstage/horizontal dispersion (are they equivalent?) so that as many positions on the sofa as possible benefit from a good sound. BRM/ribbon/horn tweeter to be prefered? Ideally, and optimistically, I would also like to experience good quality casual listening from the dining/working table further back, or even from the kitchen, while cooking, at the other end of the room, although I’m not holding my breath for such a level of performance at my set budget (<2000€, sourced from Europe, new or second hand). In any case, it’s a detached house, I can push the volume as high as I want (but in general I listen at “normal”, not “party” levels).
Other qualities I would appreciate are detail and imaging - well, as much of it as I can get for that money.

I listen to all sorts of genres, but mostly electronic music and jazz.
Sources are digital (streaming, web radio, local files).

First way I thought of going was with powered/active speakers - to minimize clutter (cables, boxes) and also to benefit from the optimal integration of amp and speakers.
If I had to choose both amp and passive speakers from scratch, I know I’d be overwhelmed by the infinity of pairings and price points, and get lost in never ending ruminations.

In this case I think the best choice would be the Klipsch Nines. I’m unsure the alternatives I considered - Kef LS50 Wireless II, Q Concept Active 200, SVS Prime Wireless Pro (these ones need to be extra good above the others because I don’t like their look) - could “fill the room”.
With the Nines, I just need a WiiM Mini (and maybe a sub) and I should be good to go.

I also looked at the Acoustic Energy AE1 Active, which are commended for their dynamic range and imaging (if I got that right ), but then I need a streamer/DAC, with a subwoofer out, which is a little restrictive.
Options considered for that, and for which I want to spend as little as possible, are the Arylic S50 Pro+ (currently on sale at $150), or something like the SMSL D-6s/Su-8/M200/Topping DX5 ($200-300).
Plus, probably, a sub.
I just wonder if the Arylic’s DAC (ESS 9023 chip) might be the weak link in that setup, and hold back the full expression of the AE1’s qualities. I’m also not so sure about their UI.

There are also a lot of seemingly attractive powered monitor (with analog feed) options (with coaxial designs?), but I can’t figure out whether they’re only suited for nearfield listening. That being said, their usually plasticky, drab looks are not ideal for a living room, I think

The third way, which for some reason only struck me yesterday, is to recycle my Audiophonics DAW-250NC, currently feeding Q Acoustics Concept 40s here. Reason being, that system is now oversized, not so much because I use it in a smaller - albeit it not small (~25m², 5 meters high ceiling) - room, but because I’m going to spend a lot less time here, and the listening conditions are a lot more casual, and in far from optimal conditions (listening position, room acoustics). I feel that system is a bit of a waste here, not utilized to its fullest potential.
So all I would need are a pair of passive bookshelves. Budget would be ~1000€ (new or used)
I’ve only begun researching, so far I wrote down the Wharfedale Linton 85th (they’re described as “easy to listen”, EAC found them pretty neutral). JBL 52… undersized ? I’m in for hours of Youtube videos watching, and forum threads reading... but that’s good fun anyway.

One thing that struck me: I checked the Concept 40 specs again, and they are rated for 55Hz at -6db. Now, in my current space, I don't have any complains about the bass (but these are the lowest range speakers I've had, and I never had a subwoofer). Admittedly, they might be sitting a little too close to the back wall (~30cm), due to room constraint. I’ll have to run some measurements, never done it before, I’ll probably find out that the response curve is all over the place!

I see that quite a lot of bookshelves are rated in the mid 40s. Depending on how bass response perception in a smaller room translates into bass response perception in a much bigger room, there might be a lot of bookshelves that would fill my requirements, and that I would not find underspec’ed for my liking.

Then, I’ll have to replace/downsize my system here, I’ll probably sell the Concept 40, and go for either an all in one solution, albeit in a smaller form factor (LSX Wireless II? PSB Alpha iQ? Q Acoustics M20D? Kanto YU6? … ), or still a pair of passive speakers, fed by something like an SMSL AO300 maybe… ?

I’d be very happy to read your comments and suggestions, and thanks for your patience for reading this far!

EDIT: just realized the Lintons are rear ported - I probably confused their design with the JBL 52 because of their shared vintage look - so maybe not suitable for my set up, unless it can be dealt with with room correction...
 
Last edited:

dfuller

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
3,383
Likes
5,204

staticV3

Master Contributor
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
7,778
Likes
12,399
I think these would be your candidates for active bookshelf speakers:

ModelPrice per Pair
(New)
Woofer Size
(Inch)
Bass extension
(-6dB)
Horizontal directivity
(-6dB)
Review
Neumann KH120 II1440€5.25"41Hz±50°Link
Genelec 8040B1800€6.5"41Hz
Klipsch The Nines1700€8"37Hz±40°Link
JBL 4305P2000€5.2543Hz±50Link
JBL 705P1960€5"43Hz±60°Link
Focal Solo6 ST62200€6.5"43Hz±70°Link
Focal Solo6 Be1600€6.5"45Hz±70°Link

You can compare all but the Genelec on https://www.spinorama.org/.

Here's a size comparison of all seven: https://comparesizes.com/comparison...o6-Be-vs-Focal-Solo6-ST6-vs-JBL/1704086920333
 
Last edited:
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
Thanks for your suggestions, and the links, I'll look into these now.
Like I mentioned, I hadn't managed to figure out so far if these monitors are suited for listening from fairly far away.

2000€ is the budget for the whole set up, from streamer (worst case scenario I add a WiiM mini), DAC (Genelec and Neumann are fed by an analog signal if I'm not mistaken), to sub, if needed - but looking at the suggested speakers' specs, doesn't look like it will be.

If I still wanted to use my Audiophonics DAW-250NC, what would be and equivalent passive solution to these above?
At this point I think it might make more sense to scale down the system I have here in a smaller room, which is underexploited, sell the Concept 40s, replace it small amp and small bookshelves or self contained system, and put the remaining money on good bookshelves for the new house.
 
Last edited:

staticV3

Master Contributor
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
7,778
Likes
12,399
2000€ is the budget for the whole set up, from streamer (worst case scenario I add a WiiM mini), DAC (Genelec and Neumann are fed by an analog signal if I'm not mistaken), to sub, if needed - but looking at the suggested speakers' specs, doesn't look like it will be.

If I still wanted to use my Audiophonics DAW-250NC, what would be and equivalent passive solution to these above?
I think the KEF R3 or Wharfedale Linton would make most sense then.
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
I think the KEF R3 or Wharfedale Linton would make most sense then.
Meta or non? There's a big price difference between them, and the Metas are >double the price of the Lintons.
I'm guessing with either of those I wouldn't really need a sub, right?
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,796
Likes
9,499
Location
Europe
This is a large room and getting good bass with bookshelves requires a sub. There is one cheap active 3-way with a 10" woofer though (KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4) but even they would probably benefit from a sub as well (EDIT: like the KRK S12G4, one of those with two RP10-3 would not blow your budget).
.
 
Last edited:

JustJones

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,740
Likes
2,450
Pair of Sonos 5 and Sub Gen3. If you an apple phone or tablet it can help with some EQ. I know most on here will laugh but for about 2000 in that room and you can return if not happy.
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
This is a large room and getting good bass with bookshelves requires a sub. There is one cheap active 3-way with a 10" woofer though (KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4) but even they would probably benefit from a sub as well (EDIT: like the KRK S12G4, one of those with two RP10-3 would not blow your budget).
.

This is still all new to me, does a big room attenuate the bass perception by dissipating the bass energy in the volume, so that I hear less bass regardless of my position relative to the source of the bass? From what frequencies does the room size effect start to be audible?
 

ZolaIII

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,143
Likes
2,443
Linton's most definitely for far feald and large room so they will pass reference calibration point at 4~5 m distance. They are back ported and come with their own stands. It's large space so you probably could do a proper placement (not putting them on shelf). And a subwoofer and those can pass with only one as ideal crossover is at 80 Hz. Big glass surfaces are troublesome and I have no idea what you could do with doors while thick curtains regarding windows will help. Don't underestimate DSP correction and proper placement and it will play out good.
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
Linton's most definitely for far feald and large room so they will pass reference calibration point at 4~5 m distance. They are back ported and come with their own stands. It's large space so you probably could do a proper placement (not putting them on shelf). And a subwoofer and those can pass with only one as ideal crossover is at 80 Hz. Big glass surfaces are troublesome and I have no idea what you could do with doors while thick curtains regarding windows will help. Don't underestimate DSP correction and proper placement and it will play out good.
I wouldn't really like to place them in the sunken lounge itself, on stands, as they'll be in the way of the fireplace, though maybe it's not such a big issue, I'm not sure. The lounge is 4.80 meters wide, I'd like the fireplace to be 1.20m, that leaves 1.80m on each side. The Lintons are 30cm wide, so I could place them let's say right in the middle of each side, they'd be ~80cm from the fireplace, and 2.80m apart from one another. It could just about work and leave enough room for moving around.
If I put them on the ledge, the ports would be at most 27cm from the wall. I've read here, can't remember for which speakers, that it might be better to push them flush against the wall, and correct afterwards, rather than kinda half way and not far enough.
The room will sure stay "lively", for correction I was hoping that the WiiM app with which I control the streamer amp would help with parametric EQ being implemented progressively (there's 4 bands on the Pro and Amp now, maybe more planned later, but I have to check what I have actually access to).
For the sub, if there is one, I was thinking of adding an OSD iDSP iWoofer or similar (~$40-60)
 

ZolaIII

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,143
Likes
2,443
Well you can plug the port's on Linton's but I didn't find offer for them without stands. You would need something like proper sized ISO Acoustics low stands like ISO 200 sub for example. SVS non Pro sub with fixed high pass trough RCA I/O would do a trick.
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
Arendal 1723 S monitor maybe? Its a verry big room.
I was looking at them yesterday, they look enticing, but they're already 2000€, won't find any second hand before a while, if ever, and I need to fit amplification and streaming (and maybe sub if needed) in the 2000€. So if use my Audiophonics DAC/amp, I have let's say 1000-1300€ left, because I need to replace it my current set up.
So if I go for powered speakers, I can look at spending all the budget on them, but I'll feel my amp (and the Concept 40s) is a bit wasted in my current smaller place, since I'll be spending a lot less time there (currently there is a promo for the LSX at ~570€, wondering if they could work in the space, which is about 5mx5mx5m...).

Also, what is needed precisely for a large room? That they can deliver dB, with low distortion? That they are optimized for farfield listening? That the bass extends low?
All of the above?
 
Last edited:

JustJones

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,740
Likes
2,450
large room? That they can deliver dB, with low distortion? That they are optimized for farfield listening? That the bass extends low?
For 2000€ including speakers, amplification, streaming ? I have no idea I'll follow this thread to see if anyone can come up with something.

Edit: Headphones?
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
For 2000€ including speakers, amplification, streaming ? I have no idea I'll follow this thread to see if anyone can come up with something.
Aside from the fact that - and please correct me if I didn't get that right - the size of the room will have an impact on bass regardless where I sit, the system just needs to be optimal for the area in front of the speakers, so up to 4 meters roughly. Everything beyond that is just extra - it'll be great if I I can still have a pleasant listening experience by pumping the volume while I'm further back at the dining table or in the kitchen, but I certainly don't expect the same quality at those distances.
So to specify, the size of the room is important for its effect on sound, but the listening area that matters is in the ~20-25m² in front of the speaker
 

JustJones

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,740
Likes
2,450
The Lintons would work well within your sunken area but when you're in the raised kitchen area you're going to be pretty far up the vertical axis so I wouldn't expect much more than background music.
From Erin's review. When I auditioned these my findings were similar.
  • The soundstage width is impressive. At about ±70° through the upper midrange, it is wide but not so wide that it results in a diffuse soundstage (at least in my setups).
  • Remember, the speaker performs best with the grille on.
  • Stay at tweeter level. If you go even 10° above or below the tweeter level, the timbre of the speaker is noticeably different and worse.
 

JustJones

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,740
Likes
2,450
The Klipsch Nines protection would kick in when you're farfield if you cranck them up but if kept at background level outside your sunken room shouldn't be a problem.
 
OP
Nicolas_

Nicolas_

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2023
Messages
39
Likes
14
The Lintons would work well within your sunken area but when you're in the raised kitchen area you're going to be pretty far up the vertical axis so I wouldn't expect much more than background music.
From Erin's review. When I auditioned these my findings were similar.
Would you say that this - a very good performance relative to what I'm asking of the system in the lounge area, and ~background music beyond that - would be the limit, for whichever combination I can think of, within my budget?
In which case I can kind of stop looking. Unless there are other sexy(-ier) alternatives to the Lintons, in the same vein? At any rate I really like their mid-century look (also for architecture and design in general)
The Klipsch Nines protection would kick in when you're farfield if you cranck them up but if kept at background level outside your sunken room shouldn't be a problem.
Good to know, thanks

Any objection, or remark, about pairing the Lintons to my Audiophonics DAC/Amp?
 
Last edited:

staticV3

Master Contributor
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
7,778
Likes
12,399
Any objection, or remark, about pairing them to my Audiophonics DAC/Amp?
The Klipsch can be connected to your DAW-250NC with a 3.5mm to 2x RCA cable.
It's possible that you will encounter a ground loop that way, which would lead to mains hum and other noise coming out of the Klipsch.
In that case, it would be better to use the Klipsch's Toslink input.
 
Top Bottom