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Help in devising my new set up (Klipsch the Nines? AE1? Audiophonic amp & Wharfedale Linton? etc... )

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Nicolas_

Nicolas_

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The Klipsch can be connected to your DAW-250NC with a 3.5mm to 2x RCA cable.
It's possible that you will encounter a ground loop that way, which would lead to mains hum and other noise coming out of the Klipsch.
In that case, it would be better to use the Klipsch's Toslink input.
I was referring to the Lintons, but I made a mess with the paragraphs :facepalm:
 

staticV3

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I was referring to the Lintons, but I made a mess with the paragraphs :facepalm:
When sitting on the couch, your DAW-250NC can drive the Lintons to about 100dB SPL:
Screenshot 2024-01-01 at 17.16.54.png

I'd be worried that due to their narrow vertical directivity and how tall they are, you may sit below the tweeter when on the couch and stand above it when in the kitchen.
 
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Nicolas_

Nicolas_

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When sitting on the couch, your DAW-250NC can drive the Lintons to about 100dB SPL:
View attachment 338797

I'd be worried that due to their narrow vertical directivity and how tall they are, you may sit below the tweeter when on the couch and stand above it when in the kitchen.
I think you are right about that - the ledge is 60cm, but their dedicated stand is 44cm high. On the ledge, tweeter would probably sit at about 105cm, and my ears ~10-15cm lower. At 4m, that works out at 2.15° - is this the correct way to calculate it, and is it significant?
Either I go back to putting them on their stands in front of the ledge, or I lower the ledge, which could also be hollow, just a concrete shelf (it would actually be good for running cables taped under it, out of sight), disconnected from the general floor level. I wanted to discuss this with the architect anyway.

If I go for shorter bookshelves, with a 6,5" or 5.25" woofer plus a sub, could it still be reasonably sized? JBL 4309 looks nice but too expensive, what about L52 (with sub)? Elac DBR62 (with sub)?
 

Palmspar

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I was looking at them yesterday, they look enticing, but they're already 2000€, won't find any second hand before a while, if ever, and I need to fit amplification and streaming (and maybe sub if needed) in the 2000€. So if use my Audiophonics DAC/amp, I have let's say 1000-1300€ left, because I need to replace it my current set up.
So if I go for powered speakers, I can look at spending all the budget on them, but I'll feel my amp (and the Concept 40s) is a bit wasted in my current smaller place, since I'll be spending a lot less time there (currently there is a promo for the LSX at ~570€, wondering if they could work in the space, which is about 5mx5mx5m...).

Also, what is needed precisely for a large room? That they can deliver dB, with low distortion? That they are optimized for farfield listening? That the bass extends low?
All of the above?
Yes more cone aria, output, and low distortion helps fill large rooms.
Without port plugs they extends deeper, for use without subwoofer.

Bigger speakers where the tweeter is further away from the center of the midbase driver(s) need more listening distange i think.
 
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LTig

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This is still all new to me, does a big room attenuate the bass perception by dissipating the bass energy in the volume, so that I hear less bass regardless of my position relative to the source of the bass? From what frequencies does the room size effect start to be audible?
That's not my point. In a large room speakers must play louder to reach the same loudness compared to a small room. The low frequencies require the most power, hence a small speaker will reach its limit and starts to distort and compress.
 
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Nicolas_

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That's not my point. In a large room speakers must play louder to reach the same loudness compared to a small room. The low frequencies require the most power, hence a small speaker will reach its limit and starts to distort and compress.
If the listening position is the same, i.e. 4m from the speakers, what does the room size (the unused one, behind my back) change, apart from the bass? Would I need more power to the speaker, to get the same dB at all frequencies, at the same listening position, as the room size increases?
 

zajogungster

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Happy New Year to everyone !

This is my first post, I've spent the best part of this week going deep down a few rabbit holes, and mining this forum for info, I can now hopefully ask my questions in not too shambolic a manner :)

I am planning the set up for my new house, which will be completed in a few months.
I'll listen to music only - no home theatre - in a quite large living room.
I've added a screenshot of the 3D rendering below.
View attachment 338627

The loft-style room itself is ~8x13 meters, comprising of lounge/dining area/kitchen, with 3.4m high ceilings. The long sides are glass sliding doors.
The speakers will be placed on each side of the wood fireplace. Floorstanders in front of the ledge would make moving around quite awkward, not to mention the fire hazard, so I've opted for bookshelf speakers, which can sit on top of the ledge (60cm high). They can sit there without stands, as they should be very close to ear level for people sitting opposite on the sofa. As the ledge is only 60cm deep, maybe a front ported or sealed design would be better?
Listening distance, if seated right in front, is about 4 meters.
I might complement the bookshelves with a subwoofer, depending on bookshelf range, budget… mood .

I’m looking for loudspeakers that can provide a wide enough soundstage/horizontal dispersion (are they equivalent?) so that as many positions on the sofa as possible benefit from a good sound. BRM/ribbon/horn tweeter to be prefered? Ideally, and optimistically, I would also like to experience good quality casual listening from the dining/working table further back, or even from the kitchen, while cooking, at the other end of the room, although I’m not holding my breath for such a level of performance at my set budget (<2000€, sourced from Europe, new or second hand). In any case, it’s a detached house, I can push the volume as high as I want (but in general I listen at “normal”, not “party” levels).
Other qualities I would appreciate are detail and imaging - well, as much of it as I can get for that money.

I listen to all sorts of genres, but mostly electronic music and jazz.
Sources are digital (streaming, web radio, local files).

First way I thought of going was with powered/active speakers - to minimize clutter (cables, boxes) and also to benefit from the optimal integration of amp and speakers.
If I had to choose both amp and passive speakers from scratch, I know I’d be overwhelmed by the infinity of pairings and price points, and get lost in never ending ruminations.

In this case I think the best choice would be the Klipsch Nines. I’m unsure the alternatives I considered - Kef LS50 Wireless II, Q Concept Active 200, SVS Prime Wireless Pro (these ones need to be extra good above the others because I don’t like their look) - could “fill the room”.
With the Nines, I just need a WiiM Mini (and maybe a sub) and I should be good to go.

I also looked at the Acoustic Energy AE1 Active, which are commended for their dynamic range and imaging (if I got that right ), but then I need a streamer/DAC, with a subwoofer out, which is a little restrictive.
Options considered for that, and for which I want to spend as little as possible, are the Arylic S50 Pro+ (currently on sale at $150), or something like the SMSL D-6s/Su-8/M200/Topping DX5 ($200-300).
Plus, probably, a sub.
I just wonder if the Arylic’s DAC (ESS 9023 chip) might be the weak link in that setup, and hold back the full expression of the AE1’s qualities. I’m also not so sure about their UI.

There are also a lot of seemingly attractive powered monitor (with analog feed) options (with coaxial designs?), but I can’t figure out whether they’re only suited for nearfield listening. That being said, their usually plasticky, drab looks are not ideal for a living room, I think

The third way, which for some reason only struck me yesterday, is to recycle my Audiophonics DAW-250NC, currently feeding Q Acoustics Concept 40s here. Reason being, that system is now oversized, not so much because I use it in a smaller - albeit it not small (~25m², 5 meters high ceiling) - room, but because I’m going to spend a lot less time here, and the listening conditions are a lot more casual, and in far from optimal conditions (listening position, room acoustics). I feel that system is a bit of a waste here, not utilized to its fullest potential.
So all I would need are a pair of passive bookshelves. Budget would be ~1000€ (new or used)
I’ve only begun researching, so far I wrote down the Wharfedale Linton 85th (they’re described as “easy to listen”, EAC found them pretty neutral). JBL 52… undersized ? I’m in for hours of Youtube videos watching, and forum threads reading... but that’s good fun anyway.

One thing that struck me: I checked the Concept 40 specs again, and they are rated for 55Hz at -6db. Now, in my current space, I don't have any complains about the bass (but these are the lowest range speakers I've had, and I never had a subwoofer). Admittedly, they might be sitting a little too close to the back wall (~30cm), due to room constraint. I’ll have to run some measurements, never done it before, I’ll probably find out that the response curve is all over the place!

I see that quite a lot of bookshelves are rated in the mid 40s. Depending on how bass response perception in a smaller room translates into bass response perception in a much bigger room, there might be a lot of bookshelves that would fill my requirements, and that I would not find underspec’ed for my liking.

Then, I’ll have to replace/downsize my system here, I’ll probably sell the Concept 40, and go for either an all in one solution, albeit in a smaller form factor (LSX Wireless II? PSB Alpha iQ? Q Acoustics M20D? Kanto YU6? … ), or still a pair of passive speakers, fed by something like an SMSL AO300 maybe… ?

I’d be very happy to read your comments and suggestions, and thanks for your patience for reading this far!

EDIT: just realized the Lintons are rear ported - I probably confused their design with the JBL 52 because of their shared vintage look - so maybe not suitable for my set up, unless it can be dealt with with room correction...
just not KLIPSCH!!! a tragedy for recorded music!
 

Ziltoe

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Won't say so, they are imho "made" for a greater distance. Have them in "near field" [~2m] but further back in the room, +4m, they deliver "just fine" with a SPL you hardly will / can listen for a longer period of time.
 

LTig

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If the listening position is the same, i.e. 4m from the speakers, what does the room size (the unused one, behind my back) change, apart from the bass? Would I need more power to the speaker, to get the same dB at all frequencies, at the same listening position, as the room size increases?
First of all it's the listening distance. In a small room you cannot sit 4m away from the speakers. Apart from this a large space behind the listening position leads to less reflected sound power at the listening position due to the distance. This increases quality but reduces quantity so you will need more power.
 
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Nicolas_

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First of all it's the listening distance. In a small room you cannot sit 4m away from the speakers. Apart from this a large space behind the listening position leads to less reflected sound power at the listening position due to the distance. This increases quality but reduces quantity so you will need more power.
Got it.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards going for the Lintons and using my Ncore Audiophonics amp to drive them. That's for the big new house.
Then I'd replace the Ncore with a scaled down amp in my current smaller place (5m x 5m x 5m - it used to be an artist's studio), sell the Concept 40s and buy something like the Elac DBR62 or Polk ES20. The idea being that hopefully I won't lose much, if anything at all, in terms of bass, even without a sub, or general sound quality, in this space, at my usual listening levels (the Concept 40s have two 5" woofers and are rated by Q Acoustics to 53Hz). The walls here are just behind both the speakers, and my listening position. In the future I'd like to have parametric EQ integrated in the set-up, I'm pretty sure the room acoustics are all over the place (I'll try to take some measurements in the coming days, I've never done it before). I'd love to find an all in one solution (streamer/dac/amp) à la Topping/SMSL with good DAC and amplification chips, in a small form factor and low price, WITH parametric EQ somewhere along the chain, but that doesn't exist yet. There is the WiiM Amp though, but I'm not sure if the dac chip is up to par... Or, in two boxes, the WiiM Pro+ and a Aiyima A07 Max or Fosi ZA3, for instance

Going the route of monitors (Genelec/Neumann) would work out at roughly the same budget (they're a little costlier than the Lintons, but I can sell the Ncore amp).
I just don't know how different they would sound than the Lintons+Ncore.
 
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dr0ss

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I have a similar space (sunken room, cathedral ceiling, glass walls) and it is easily filled by a pair of Klipsch KG4s, with adequate bass extension. These would fit easily on your ledges. You should know that perfect sound isn't going to happen in a room like this, massive glass surfaces`, staggered floor, and other design issues are incompatible with accurate reproduction.
 
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Nicolas_

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I have a similar space (sunken room, cathedral ceiling, glass walls) and it is easily filled by a pair of Klipsch KG4s, with adequate bass extension. These would fit easily on your ledges. You should know that perfect sound isn't going to happen in a room like this, massive glass surfaces`, staggered floor, and other design issues are incompatible with accurate reproduction.
Thanks for sharing, quite useful to know.
Have you tried in your own space to room-correct to get nearer an accurate reproduction (or at least a pleasant one) ?
If only for the bass ?
 

dr0ss

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Have you tried in your own space to room-correct to get nearer an accurate reproduction (or at least a pleasant one) ?
If only for the bass ?
No. I think in a room with screwy acoustics you could probably use room correction to get the sound at one position pretty good, but we tend to listen in several places -- both the sofas in the living room, but also the relatively elevated dining area 10 feet back. We have positions and settings adjusted so that we're already pretty happy from everywhere in the main space, but I wouldn't call it accurate. Bass has not been an issue. I don't know much about modern Klipsch speakers, but the heritage ones are all outstanding at filling large spaces.
 
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