Perceptually we hear the ratio, not the absolute amount. Why would the absolute amount be relevant?Changing goalposts by mixing amounts with ratios?
I always argued about the ratio btw.
Perceptually we hear the ratio, not the absolute amount. Why would the absolute amount be relevant?Changing goalposts by mixing amounts with ratios?
I.. what?hello. topic for me thanks kelly
i found this web and i would to help you with evolution. i am from UAE ;D
I think the bot wants to help you through the evolutionary process .I.. what?
10. Why not Genelec 8361As for L/C/R?
I considered them, but I think they're a bit too large and they're also heavier than I wanted to deal with. They would not be able to be mounted using the adapters and stands I've chosen, for example. This system has plenty of output for a ~2.5m listening distance, especially since I upmix everything with Auro3D so the center helps even stereo material.
No, the reason is minimum height. You can't clamp a speaker on the bottom tube section. The bottom tube section is 42mm diameter, the top is 35mm. The super long poles have a minimum height that is above ear level. Here's a photo to show you exactly what I mean. The circled spot is where the adapter rests on the bottom section. That's the minimum height. (The adapter is upside down to alleviate the sagging issue I mentioned in the OP).Is weight also the reason your fronts are on different poles? I see where you mention the clamps, but not the poles. Unless they're the same SKU? I'm basically copying this setup with Neumann's, a lot more closed-in though. All speakers will be within 1m. Trying to fit all the pieces together before I actually buy anything
I would have bought Genelecs from the start and used them for heights(8030C or 8330A probably, 8331A too $$$ for heights imo lol). I would ceiling mount the heights if I owned a house/condo and was confident I wouldn't be moving for a long time though, and switch the surrounds to the ear level pole size. I do also plan to add (some) room treatment.Also, now that you've gone through it all, anything you would do differently? Reading through it, you definitely seem like you have the experience and knowledge to achieve good sub optimization so maybe smaller LCR?
I EQ everything with Audyssey so it puts them on the same target curve. IMO this is essential for any multichannel setup. You must be able to EQ them all to the same target curve. There's too much variation caused by speaker placement alone otherwise. Even if the target curve isn't perfect, it's the consistency you want.Finally, do the Neumanns and the Genelec's blend OK? I tried using LS50 Meta as heights with R5's, maybe it was placebo due to gold vs. black Uni-Q but they did not mesh at all and during playback it was surprisingly distracting. Probably someone with more skill could EQ in such a way to stitch them together but I never figured it out
I would have bought Genelecs from the start and used them for heights(8030C or 8330A probably, 8331A too $$$ for heights imo lol). I would ceiling mount the heights if I owned a house/condo and was confident I wouldn't be moving for a long time though, and switch the surrounds to the ear level pole size. I do also plan to add (some) room treatment.
I was wondering if you had experience with any other Neumann monitors besides the KH80, and if so how they compare to the Ones? All speakers will be within 1m, so basically i'll be on-axis the entire time.
Hi so you don’t think the 8361A would be supported well, or at all, with the K&M stands like you have? Do you think any stands would be able to stably support those 70lbs monsters, or would one really be limited to setting them on a desk top?People have seemed interested in multi-channel Genelec setups for a while now, so I figured I would make one post with photos and other information about my own setup, rather than pointing people to posts spread over a dozen+ threads.
![]()
![]()
GearL/C/R are Genelec 8351Bs.
LS/RS are Genelec 8341As.
4 x Heights are Neumann KH80.
2 x Subwoofers are Arendal 1723 2S.
Stands are: K&M 26706 Base Plate + 24623 Rod (heights/surrounds) + 26736 Rod (L/R). The 19780 adapter is used for all speakers, but the 19610 could also be used. The 8351Bs are pretty near the weight limit for that adapter, so they tend to sag a bit, but flipping the adapters upside down(so the angle adjustment can only tilt upwards) fixed that. The friction clamp on the 19780 will not hold an 8351B(14.3kg) but will hold an 8341A(9.8kg). If the speaker is at the minimum height, the clamp does not need to support the weight because it will rest on the lower tube section.
Electronics: Denon X4500H + Nvidia Shield TV Pro.
TV: LG 65" C9 OLED.
For anyone else who wants to do this, I suggest taking care with selecting your distance rods, since the 19780 adapter clamps on the upper 35mm section of the rod, but NOT on the lower 42mm one. So there is a minimum height you can use that depends on the particular rod.
FAQ1. Why not use digital outputs for the Genelecs?
So far it's not really practical if you want an AVP that can decode Atmos and upmix w/Auro3D, which I do. The cheapest option is the JBL SDP-55($6K) with its Dante outputs, but that has some kind of bug that makes a ticking sound sometimes. Other options would be Storm/Trinnov processors(too $$$ for me) with digital output options, or modifying your own AVR to have digital outputs. I am very skeptical there is any audible improvement except maybe a small noise floor reduction, so it's not a major concern. I would like to use Dante just to clean up the cabling situation, though.
2. Why not use Genelec subwoofers? Don't they integrate better?
Genelec subwoofers are really expensive relative to the SPL they output. And unfortunately, GLM does not have a particularly sophisticated subwoofer EQ system for home listening. This post elaborates. But the short version is that GLM's subwoofer EQ strategy is not as sophisticated as Multi-Sub Optimizer or Dirac Bass Control. All that said, Genelec subwoofers are very convenient especially for stereo setups and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them if you don't want to worry about manual sub integration.
3. Do you use GLM or Audyssey?
I use both. I run GLM first, and then Audyssey afterwards. This minimizes the corrections Audyssey needs to perform. Doing it the other way around would also work, but it introduces the problem that GLM might create a level or EQ mismatch in the subwoofer crossover area, since it cannot measure the subwoofers. If I had a full Genelec system with Genelec subwoofers, I would probably only use GLM.
4. Measurements?
I'll add more detail later, but for now here is a single point full-range measurement and a spectrogram. This is after GLM+Audyssey correction, and with Multi-Sub Optimizer. Since this is a single point measurement, the high frequency information is not super accurate.
![]()
![]()
5. Why no room treatment?
Mostly haven't gotten around to it. The frequency response is pretty good as-is, honestly. I would like to reduce the RT60 times somewhat overall but that's about it. I am planning to add a little room treatment eventually, but I need to make sure I purchase things that will look reasonably decent in the room and match the furniture etc, so that is a concern, and may require a custom order. That complicates things since I need to figure out where I want treatment before I order it.
6. Why not ported subs/Why dual opposed subs?
They're mostly too large for my space. While there are similar sized ported subs to the Arendals that offer a bit more low end output, they tend to have port tunings above/close to 20hz, and I don't love the increased group delay caused by that. It's very unclear if it's audible, to be honest, but I'd rather not worry about it. Also, a nice side benefit of dual opposed woofer subs is that they don't physically vibrate or move at all. So you can reasonably use them as end tables, as I am doing on the right side of the sofa, and you don't have to worry about anything rattling or falling off of them.
7. How did you use Multi-Sub Optimizer with this setup?
Good question. The TLDR; is that you can use anything that allows PEQs for each subwoofer channels, and in this case, the subwoofers themselves have 7 PEQ slots for each one. There is some information in this post here. I am planning to write a mini-tutorial on this later.
8. How are your heights configured?
They are set as "Front" and "Rear" heights. This is fairly important, as "Surround Heights" will NOT be used for Atmos output. Yes, this is a little out of spec because they're not really "Rear" heights, but it sounds fine. I am aware some people like to be super picky about using tops and heights separately for Atmos and Auro3D, but that just isn't practical in a space like this. Honestly, I think heights work OK for Atmos, as long as the angle between the listener and the speaker is relatively steep. At the end of the day, you're always better off with suboptimally positioned height/tops than none.
9. Why Neumann KH80s for heights and not Genelec 8331As or 8030C etc/Why don't the Neumanns match?
The Neumanns were my first purchases, and the black ones were on sale. I bought them before I'd even decided to start using Genelecs. I likely will replace them eventually with matching white Genelecs(but 8331As are insanely expensive for height use...) but it's a low priority. Probably won't happen until I move and am forced to tear down the whole system anyways. There are no audible issues with them as they are, heights just aren't that important.
10. Why not Genelec 8361As for L/C/R?
I considered them, but I think they're a bit too large and they're also heavier than I wanted to deal with. They would not be able to be mounted using the adapters and stands I've chosen, for example. This system has plenty of output for a ~2.5m listening distance, especially since I upmix everything with Auro3D so the center helps even stereo material. Of course I want W371As one day, but probably not in this room...
11. Why no W371As?
I accept donations.![]()
You inspired me to start deal hunting for a Genelec surround setup. I was able to find a 25% offer if I buy 8351B, 8341A, and 8331A all at once. Before I spend the next 30 days tweaking to make 100% certain I want to do it before the return window closes, I was wondering if you had experience with any other Neumann monitors besides the KH80, and if so how they compare to the Ones? All speakers will be within 1m, so basically i'll be on-axis the entire time. I already have, and adore, the KH310's but the depth of soundstage I get from Kef R-series is immaculate, something I haven't been able to replicate with Neumann or even Revel Be. I'm presuming (hoping) the Ones have a similar characteristic.
8361A is well beyond the weight limits for the adapters that attach to the back of the speakers (19780 and 19610). There may be some way to mount it using an adapter and the bottom screw, but that would not have fit with the height speakers on the same stand, which was a major reason I went with these stands to avoid clutter. The other reason is they were available in white. There are Genelec stands for the 8361A and you can of course use a normal bookshelf pedestal stand. There may be other options for the 8361A out there -- I didn't do more research after deciding not to buy them.Hi so you don’t think the 8361A would be supported well, or at all, with the K&M stands like you have? Do you think any stands would be able to stably support those 70lbs monsters, or would one really be limited to setting them on a desk top?
Yes, I did consider Kef speakers. The LS50 was rejected because it's a coaxial 2-way which is prone to IMD and does not have sufficient mid-bass output for me. The 8351B can play MUCH louder than any LS50 especially with a sub.Also, about your HT setup comprised of Genelecs. Did you consider consumer grade/audiophile equipment instead? Like KEF LS50 Meta and the like? Wondering if the Genelec setup sounds a lot better than even those.
Lastly, do you ever get noise complaints from neighbors to the side or up/down stairs?
Where were they offering 25% off deals for bundle purchases?
I basically decided to go as large as I could. I discussed above why 8361As were too big, and the 8351Bs are the next down. They are +3dB(1.5x) over the 8341As with subs, and of course, each size increase controls directivity a bit lower.Can you tell me why you went for the 8351s over 8341s? Just curious what you reasoning was. I would like to get the 8351s if for nothing else their slightly higher directivity. However, my room size and listening distance are similar to yours and according to Genelec’s selection guide the 8341s seem most optimal. They will also be closer matched to surround and height speakers in terms of SPL capability.
Yep. I also kind of assume if I ever move to a large enough room to justify 8351B + W371A, then I would want a 7.4.4 and I'll buy 2 extra 8341As for rear surrounds. That's the nice thing about Genelec's lineup, it's easy to get whatever sizes you need while ensuring they all sound basically the same.I guess another way of future proofing would be to have 8341 LCR initially and then when move into larger room get 8361s while moving the 8341s to surround and heights duty![]()
3. Do you use GLM or Audyssey?
I use both. I run GLM first, and then Audyssey afterwards. This minimizes the corrections Audyssey needs to perform. Doing it the other way around would also work, but it introduces the problem that GLM might create a level or EQ mismatch in the subwoofer crossover area, since it cannot measure the subwoofers. If I had a full Genelec system with Genelec subwoofers, I would probably only use GLM.