Genelec Owners Lounge and Discussion

[Behrelec 37]

EasyC

If you haven't listened to the Genelec master series properly, it's a bit difficult to explain it to inexperienced ears in public. But let's say that a recording event at a LIVe club or in a large room makes the stereo playback sound more believable or more life-filled, so that, for example, the volume ratios of electric guitars rise to the surface and fade out/dilute differently. So they sound fuller and uniformly flat on the sound barrier front, clean. The drums in the background also sound fuller, or let's say if you were there as a ghost in terms of stereo playback, but in the flesh, then in a concert, comparing the same ratio experience.

Pa- sound playback can also be a similar experience, yes, but its sound structure, accuracy and naturalness, credibility, in my opinion, clearly suffer much more in comparison to the Genelec master series performance. And often the bass levels even roll over everything. The difference is greater the higher the level of live recording in the studio was once made for consumer use with a sales mind. The live experience is of course always a body/body experience, it is also an emotional experience from the point of view of the audience occasionally touching your flesh and the smells of the environment, humidity, temperature also affect the general atmosphere. Not to mention drinking alcohol. The Genelec master series is of course not capable of such an experience theater, at least not for a long time, hardly ever.

 

[Frank Dernie]

EasyC

If you haven't listened to the Genelec master series properly, it's a bit difficult to explain it to inexperienced ears in public. But let's say that a recording event at a LIVe club or in a large room makes the stereo playback sound more believable or more life-filled, so that, for example, the volume ratios of electric guitars rise to the surface and fade out/dilute differently. So they sound fuller and uniformly flat on the sound barrier front, clean. The drums in the background also sound fuller, or let's say if you were there as a ghost in terms of stereo playback, but in the flesh, then in a concert, comparing the same ratio experience.

Pa- sound playback can also be a similar experience, yes, but its sound structure, accuracy and naturalness, credibility, in my opinion, clearly suffer much more in comparison to the Genelec master series performance. And often the bass levels even roll over everything. The difference is greater the higher the level of live recording in the studio was once made for consumer use with a sales mind. The live experience is of course always a body/body experience, it is also an emotional experience from the point of view of the audience occasionally touching your flesh and the smells of the environment, humidity, temperature also affect the general atmosphere. Not to mention drinking alcohol. The Genelec master series is of course not capable of such an experience theater, at least not for a long time, hardly ever.

Reads like meaningless twaddle to me I'm afraid.

 

[Behrelec 37]

Google translate is a bit misleading. Finnish is a fairly straightforward language, so feel free to ask if you have any questions.

But I meant that the Genelec Master series can produce a more believable sound barrier in Live playback, more naturally, and a larger sound image that the Ones series cannot produce as believably, because there is not enough power in the midrange. As I recall, the Master series has about 10 dB more kick in the midrange and the implementation is different with the element and its drivers. The coaxial element in the Ones series is a high-definition display of small structures (microdynamics) but not sufficient as a display of the power of a larger sound image.

 

[anlin]

I note that the Ones series does not give a believable natural sound of live sound reproduction, at least with electronic music. Because there is not enough energy in the midrange compared to all the speakers in the Master series. But those Ones series speakers shine on the other hand when you look at the sound image from close up, the stereo resolution is super beautifully sharp and naturally easy to observe details.

But you still won't get that beautiful natural sound quality of live playback with them, because these small speakers deal with completely different problems in the close monitoring field, and that's what they are designed for. Many people don't always understand the proportions and advantages correctly.If you are a very hard and balanced music listener, not the creator of it, but a NOW listener, then it is definitely worth at least getting to know the Master series at some point. Many people may be very surprised if they get to play with the goodies.

Google translate is a bit misleading. Finnish is a fairly straightforward language, so feel free to ask if you have any questions.

But I meant that the Genelec Master series can produce a more believable sound barrier in Live playback, more naturally, and a larger sound image that the Ones series cannot produce as believably, because there is not enough power in the midrange. As I recall, the Master series has about 10 dB more kick in the midrange and the implementation is different with the element and its drivers. The coaxial element in the Ones series is a high-definition display of small structures (microdynamics) but not sufficient as a display of the power of a larger sound image.

The Ones are not midrange deficient in frequency response or output capability. Have a look at the 8361 measurements. The frequency response is very neutral throughout. And as for max output, at 106 dB midrange distortion is still vanishingly small even as the tweeter protection circuitry is kicking in. If you need more than that in your home, you should probably invest in hearing aids rather than bigger speakers.

As for the "Ones are for near field monitoring only" point, could you point out what exactly in the performance characteristics of the 8351 or the 8361 makes them unsuitable for regular music listening at a typical distance of say 3-4 meters compared to the 1237/1238? All have similar horizontal directivity characteristics but the vertical directivity of the 1237/1238 is a lot more lumpy as you'd expect for a non-coaxial 3-way. Maybe the midrange energy you're hearing is the 1-2 kHz bump in the floor reflection of your 1237s.

I'd argue the Ones are closer to their intended application in a typical freestanding setup compared to the Masters which are designed to be soffit mounted.

EasyC

If you haven't listened to the Genelec master series properly, it's a bit difficult to explain it to inexperienced ears in public. But let's say that a recording event at a LIVe club or in a large room makes the stereo playback sound more believable or more life-filled, so that, for example, the volume ratios of electric guitars rise to the surface and fade out/dilute differently. So they sound fuller and uniformly flat on the sound barrier front, clean. The drums in the background also sound fuller, or let's say if you were there as a ghost in terms of stereo playback, but in the flesh, then in a concert, comparing the same ratio experience.

Pa- sound playback can also be a similar experience, yes, but its sound structure, accuracy and naturalness, credibility, in my opinion, clearly suffer much more in comparison to the Genelec master series performance. And often the bass levels even roll over everything. The difference is greater the higher the level of live recording in the studio was once made for consumer use with a sales mind. The live experience is of course always a body/body experience, it is also an emotional experience from the point of view of the audience occasionally touching your flesh and the smells of the environment, humidity, temperature also affect the general atmosphere. Not to mention drinking alcohol. The Genelec master series is of course not capable of such an experience theater, at least not for a long time, hardly ever.

Sorry but this is subjective nonsense.

And before you say I just haven't listened to the Master series of Genelec speakers properly - yes, I auditioned the 1237, the 1238 and the 8361 last year when choosing speakers for my living room home theater setup. While I liked all three, I ended up with 8361s, which I found had the sharpest imaging and were the most practical out of the three. That being said, if I was to build a larger home theater setup with multi row seating, proper room treatment and the possibility to soffit mount the speakers, I'd probably go for the 1238s.

 

[Behrelec 37]

I believe that I have said my point very clearly already. There is nothing really to add to the previous ones. I am not changing my position and of course every single speaker built by man can be listened to from a distance of even 10 meters or 30 meters, it does not make the sound reproduction of those Ones models bad, actually not at all. Their potential natural abilities are just completely different in their maximum benefits from the natural abilities of the master series.

There are different series and different results. But the sound structure purity is almost the same level. And purity is relative, because the CD/streaming services/blu ray music source always determines the output purity of the music, also the three-dimensionality, the size/shape/acoustics of the recording space, and the quality of the mixing and mastering result. Also, the timeline from the past defines the recording technology and its different saturation purity in relation to current technologies in studios.People want to forcefully understand things crookedly. You shouldn't force things to be twisted in your own brain if you don't understand the text you're reading. Read with your mind. I'm not talking shit.

 

[anlin]

I believe that I have said my point very clearly already. There is nothing really to add to the previous ones. I am not changing my position and of course every single speaker built by man can be listened to from a distance of even 10 meters or 30 meters, it does not make the sound reproduction of those Ones models bad, actually not at all. Their potential natural abilities are just completely different in their maximum benefits from the natural abilities of the master series.

There are different series and different results. But the sound structure purity is almost the same level. And purity is relative, because the CD/streaming services/blu ray music source always determines the output purity of the music, also the three-dimensionality, the size/shape/acoustics of the recording space, and the quality of the mixing and mastering result. Also, the timeline from the past defines the recording technology and its different saturation purity in relation to current technologies in studios.People want to forcefully understand things crookedly. You shouldn't force things to be twisted in your own brain if you don't understand the text you're reading. Read with your mind. I'm not talking shit.

Yes, you've made your stance clear enough in multiple threads. It's fine to have an opinion and everyone is entitled to one, but what I don't agree with is claiming authority on the superiority of one speaker over another with nothing more than "I like it better" to back it up.

 

[Behrelec 37]

A little bit of another matter.Those who want to get some kind of idea of the Genelec old series master speakers, that is, the differences between the 10xx vs 12xx series, an interesting idea came to my mind when I was in the sauna recently.

The old series is as if far from the past in terms of Apple's iPhone 10 phone hardware and software updates. While the Genelec 12xx series is more and resembles the iPhone 16 promax series now model year 2025. In this 16 promax series, it is possible to record up to 4k video. This analogy would correspond to the fact that the 12xx series had glm room correction. Also, the class d amplifier power and the smoothness of the software make the advantages of the Genelec 12xx series many decades later in development.

If some have more experience with these iPhones, it is easy to relate the differences between the old and new Genelec models in your own mind. The differences are big and significant, even though you can still call friends with old iPhones, time has already passed them by.

 

[Esprit]

Let's keep this discussion calm and relaxed, the competition to see who has the biggest one was done when we were children.
Have a good evening

 

[Behrelec 37]

Esprit

Of course. It's good for everyone here to be relaxed, very relaxed. There's really no need for any competitions. Just differences in perspective, interpretations AND EXPERIENCE.

Without experience, words have no power, or should we say more precisely that experience brings out a different comparison ratio and a sharper view of different things. As if without experience, one would speak blindly without greater knowledge.

 

[EasyC]

EasyC

If you haven't listened to the Genelec master series properly, it's a bit difficult to explain it to inexperienced ears in public. But let's say that a recording event at a LIVe club or in a large room makes the stereo playback sound more believable or more life-filled, so that, for example, the volume ratios of electric guitars rise to the surface and fade out/dilute differently. So they sound fuller and uniformly flat on the sound barrier front, clean. The drums in the background also sound fuller, or let's say if you were there as a ghost in terms of stereo playback, but in the flesh, then in a concert, comparing the same ratio experience.

Pa- sound playback can also be a similar experience, yes, but its sound structure, accuracy and naturalness, credibility, in my opinion, clearly suffer much more in comparison to the Genelec master series performance. And often the bass levels even roll over everything. The difference is greater the higher the level of live recording in the studio was once made for consumer use with a sales mind. The live experience is of course always a body/body experience, it is also an emotional experience from the point of view of the audience occasionally touching your flesh and the smells of the environment, humidity, temperature also affect the general atmosphere. Not to mention drinking alcohol. The Genelec master series is of course not capable of such an experience theater, at least not for a long time, hardly ever.

Yes, a live concert is different than listening at home (duh). And a PA is just a big high SPL stereo soundsystem.
If the band plays very loud, you’ll hear the band from stage louder than the PA - especially guitars and (snare)drum. In halls up to about a 1000 capacity that is. On stage, sound is different again, because of the monitoring system. And then there is the FOH person who mixes the sound in the hall, and there’s a monitor mix on stage. It all adds up.
All your flowery language has nothing to do with the speakers (or PA) used. And flowery language and Genelecs don’t really go together.

 

[Behrelec 37]

EasyC

The matter will not proceed as the gentleman has no experience of what I am talking about. But hopefully you will still get to experience the master series properly, as I have told you about them, using the glm software. These are not Public Audio speakers. They have a slightly different operating principle.

 

[Mort]

Yesterday I got my used 7380a in Brooklyn. I paid $2.7k. It's quite scuffed up, but these are made like tanks.

Sure enough, it added about 6db in bass heavy music. 94-95db with the 12" 400w 7370a and 99-100db with the 15" 800w 7380a. In that respect it performs as expected.

I like the SAM subwoofers with GLM a lot.

 

[tifune]

Sure enough, it added about 6db in bass heavy music. 94-95db with the 12" 400w 7370a and 99-100db with the 15" 800w 7380a. In that respect it performs as expected.

I don't really understand what you're saying. Did something stop you from applying EQ to get another 6dB from your 7370? It's rated to 113dB, -3dB @ 19Hz. I'm sure the 7380 is better overall, but 100dB isn't a crazy number above 20Hz

 

[Mort]

I don't really understand what you're saying. Did something stop you from applying EQ to get another 6dB from your 7370? It's rated to 113dB, -3dB @ 19Hz. I'm sure the 7380 is better overall, but 100dB isn't a crazy number above 20Hz

I'm not trying to benchmark to Genelecs number. These are in-room (1m) bass heavy music measured dbA to the clipping light. It's my benchmark and a rough one.

100db sustained like that is great yes.

What's really a feat is how clean it sounds.

 

[Frank Dernie]

My listening enjoyment went from rock music in my teens and during my 20s I became enamoured of folk music for the beautiful tunes, and later in baroque and classical music for the tunes and musical interest.
That means my main objective in my HiFi has always been (ie since I could afford it) the accuracy of instrumental and voice timbre. The ability to play loud and deep comes later when I started to enjoy the big orchestral pieces with huge dynamic range and sometimes with an organ underpinning things.

I have two systems, one of which gives very convincing instrumental and vocal timbre and has pretty good dynamic range and goes down to 23Hz, the other has plenty of dynamic range (109dB/watt horns) so I can get realistic dynamics but has a bit more colouration and falls away below 40Hz.

As an engineer starting out in noise and vibration research I can't see any technical reason why the big soffit mount Genelecs could have any sound quality benefits over the "ones" other than how loud they can go.

Nothing about them would give a better stereo image - perfectly good enough if the listener is far enough away for the units to integrate - but better than the "ones" by what mechanism could that possibly be?

They are presumably both linearised to a production standard using DSP at the end of production - the "ones" certainly are, it would be a shame if the big ones were not.

So rather than repetitive statement of opinion what, scientifically, is it in the big ones which could make them of superior SQ?

 

[Mort]

8361a monitors and 7380a subwoofer.

 

[Esprit]

Small

 

[patoulol]

8361a monitors and 7380a subwoofer.
View attachment 460508

No acoustic treatment?

 

[darth]

8361a monitors and 7380a subwoofer.
View attachment 460508

How does one quake proof these? I guess you folks on the East side probably don't have to worry as much as us in California

 

[darth]

Looks like someone forgot to update their certs

Edit: Fixed now