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Frankly, it's hell to choose an AVR

Hattrick

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What really matters is where is this going to be used? House ,great room or condo/apartment living room? Or do you have a dedicated HT room with room treatments, seats, and placed speakers? Do you need 5.1 or larger? Per music do you want a direct input and audio out for analog like vinyl? How about streaming and or CD audio? Last, budget.
 

Acerun

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I think the best options at that price range are still the Denon X3800H or the Onkyo RZ50.
X3800H measured poorly. I would get the x3700h or you could actually probably at that price now used get either an x4700h or possibly if you are lucky an x6700H.
 

dlaloum

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X3800H measured poorly. I would get the x3700h or you could actually probably at that price now used get either an x4700h or possibly if you are lucky an x6700H.
The X3800 didn't "measure poorly" - but given the price rise over the X3700, and the fact that performance in SINAD terms was marginally worse, it was judged to be poor value.

On the other hand, the X3800 brings features that the X3700 didn't have - so its value equation will depend on what features the buyer is seeking.

It is extremely doubtful that anyone could differentiate between the X3700 and X3800 in a double blind test - the differences are way below the threshold of audibility.

If you have any interest in Dirac - then the X3700 is not an option.
 

Head_Unit

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Look up retina resolution and you'll see that 8K is a huge waste of money and resources.
Yeah but all those charts and stuff don't tell the whole story. While yes we'd be more efficient with some oversampled scheme I saw described once, surely "8k" on TVs is more about the panel qualities than the number of pixels, just as "4k" looked way the hell better I believe due to just better colors and so on, not really because of more pixels. Better brightness and color spectrum and contrast can look better at whatever "k" we run. So to conclude/imply as some (maybe not you) do that "8k" TVs are a waste is a logical fallacy.
- When I'm watching old black and white Perry Mason reruns well 0.2k might suffice :D
- I'm waiting patiently for "1-bit" TVs...
- Actually we have all these "k"s but how much is the compression? I'm guessing a truly uncompressed "1k" could look better than "4k" if the panels were the "same."
 

Head_Unit

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In short, I don't know what to think anymore.
I can help! Look at this watch swinging from my hand...it is swinging...it is swinging...you are getting gullible...you are PMing me your banking information and passwords...you are ordering me a Trinnov Altitude and some giant Magicos...

We've long been Denon fans. A current "leap" to an Anthem AVM70 + ATI 525NC proved to sound great in a slightly different way though not $6k better ha ha. Not really any better, just different. I think the room correction is a biggest difference between the AVR brands really; you want a good one. Also the ability to turn off unused internal channels if you add outboard amplification. And if you want to run multiple subs be sure your flavor can do that. (For Audyssey it's "Sub EQ HT")

Be sure to get https://acinfinity.com/receiver-amp-cooling-fans/
 

Head_Unit

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Anybody can make an amp in their basement. Same for speakers. That's why you see the market flooded with so many boutique manufacturers in those categories. These products require little capital investment (see Schiit, Wilson, etc) and are mostly marketed based on emotion because "sound quality" is in the ear of the listener.

Technology is hard and engineers are expensive.
Amen yes. Hence streamers that don't support AirPlay etc etc, DACs that don't support HDMI...heck I interfaced to one lady at Apple that all she worked on was licensing. Not the engineering implementation side, just the paperwork.
 

dlaloum

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I can help! Look at this watch swinging from my hand...it is swinging...it is swinging...you are getting gullible...you are PMing me your banking information and passwords...you are ordering me a Trinnov Altitude and some giant Magicos...

We've long been Denon fans. A current "leap" to an Anthem AVM70 + ATI 525NC proved to sound great in a slightly different way though not $6k better ha ha. Not really any better, just different. I think the room correction is a biggest difference between the AVR brands really; you want a good one. Also the ability to turn off unused internal channels if you add outboard amplification. And if you want to run multiple subs be sure your flavor can do that. (For Audyssey it's "Sub EQ HT")

Be sure to get https://acinfinity.com/receiver-amp-cooling-fans/
But Audyssey SubEQ HT is a very low benchmark for multi-sub....
 

EWL5

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X3800H measured poorly. I would get the x3700h or you could actually probably at that price now used get either an x4700h or possibly if you are lucky an x6700H.
The catch is any newer x700h AVR will have worse DACs (same as in the x800h) compared to the x700h you pick up before the AKM fire.
 

Acerun

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The X3800 didn't "measure poorly" - but given the price rise over the X3700, and the fact that performance in SINAD terms was marginally worse, it was judged to be poor value.

On the other hand, the X3800 brings features that the X3700 didn't have - so its value equation will depend on what features the buyer is seeking.

It is extremely doubtful that anyone could differentiate between the X3700 and X3800 in a double blind test - the differences are way below the threshold of audibility.

If you have any interest in Dirac - then the X3700 is not an option.
MultEQ-X would be an option for the 3700, 4700, 6700 though and I've found it to make a significant impact on the overall sound quality for my set up.
 

Head_Unit

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But Audyssey SubEQ HT is a very low benchmark for multi-sub....
I've never heard/seen anything comparing. What does Dirac call such a feature? My recollection of ARC Genesis is it handles multi subs from the get go. At any rate SubEQ HT surely beats only one output when connecting more than one sub :D
 

Head_Unit

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"8K" is literally just about the numbers of pixels.
8K TVs don't have better quality pixels than 4K ones.
I could believe that by now. Back when I was buying some TVs the 4k panels clearly looked better (not the pixels, the colors etc)...but eventually everything becomes better than our perceptions.
 

Godataloss

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I've resigned myself to either the x3800 or the x4800. I'm leaning towards the 4800, but it seems a stiff premium to pay for an extra 20 wpc. Are there any other differentiating factors I'm missing.
 

EWL5

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I've resigned myself to either the x3800 or the x4800. I'm leaning towards the 4800, but it seems a stiff premium to pay for an extra 20 wpc. Are there any other differentiating factors I'm missing.
Here ya go:


I don't think it's worth the extra money but that's just me!
 

lessthanjoey

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Here ya go:


I don't think it's worth the extra money but that's just me!
I'm waiting to see Dirac ART announcements - while theoretically it seems like it could get released for both, it'd also be unsurprisingly if they restricted it to the 4800h. It's the major feature I want in the upgrade so need to let that settle before deciding.
 

Godataloss

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I was about to pull the trigger on an 'Amazon Renewed' 4800 for $400 off, but it seems they do not come with the Denon 3 year warranty. 90 days seems like a terrible risk to take with these things. Looks like I'll wait a bit longer...
 

EWL5

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I was about to pull the trigger on an 'Amazon Renewed' 4800 for $400 off, but it seems they do not come with the Denon 3 year warranty. 90 days seems like a terrible risk to take with these things. Looks like I'll wait a bit longer...
Good call. I'd be more confident w/Denon renewed/refurbished!
Adorama has had the crazy price for the 3800 at least twice so perhaps there's a 2nd sale coming for the 4800, like closer to BF?
 

TheGeeDawg

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I've resigned myself to either the x3800 or the x4800. I'm leaning towards the 4800, but it seems a stiff premium to pay for an extra 20 wpc. Are there any other differentiating factors I'm missing.
The 4800h can independently turn on seperate amplifiers based on input. Example: For inputs used for music my 4500h is set to only trigger my front stage amplifier. For video inputs I trigger all amplifiers. This is useful if you care about wasting energy and leaving your unused amplifier running.
 

Godataloss

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The 4800h can independently turn on seperate amplifiers based on input. Example: For inputs used for music my 4500h is set to only trigger my front stage amplifier. For video inputs I trigger all amplifiers. This is useful if you care about wasting energy and leaving your unused amplifier running.
I think the 3800 can too. At least I hope so. I ended up buying the 3800.
 
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