I too find it disappointing we haven’t got one with the alternate dac’s tested. Mainly because all of the Denon’s are the default recommendation based on measurements of products before the change. ItI s anyone’s guess how the new ones perform until actually tested.
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Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
- Thread starter bigguyca
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Amir was willing to test mine but he was backed up at the time. I haven't followed up as I haven't had the energy or desire to take it out of service to test it.
That’s what I mean. He wasn’t willing. Arguably the most popular AVRs in the world, with the biggest question mark hanging over them, needing a re-review in order to avoid misleading people from the original review and, as you mentioned a willing donor…and the opportunity wasn’t taken. I just find that strange.
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I know the 5102 is the new 'main' DAC. What I'm curious about is whether the test Amir performed on the 'original' 4700 shows what this 5100 is capable of as he tested the 'Network DAC' as well. And it isn't that bad at all. We seem to get a consistent max. performance of the PCM lower tier DAC's (1690, 5102, 5100) This could imply that íf indeed the network test show the 5100 result, the 5102 could well be at the level of the original AKM (within the 4700 configuration of course...)It seems to be the PCM5102A based on many posts including the one linked below. The difference between the 5102 and 5100 is very minor anyway.
Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
Damn, this is more entertaining than any of the films I'm watching via my 3700h. I bought it just a few weeks ago, and my serial number has a '6' as the fifth digit. Do we know for certain it's prior to the DAC swap? I thought the '7's were after April/May this year, whereas the fire took place...
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Oh dear. It’s called reading between the lines, when you learn to read and not take everything at face value.Reading is hard…
HarmonicTHD
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… or baseless allegations.
Only way to find out. Send your new amp to Amir and become a donor to support the otherwise free service.
There is nothing between the lines. Amir has probably dozens of "world-changing" audio products on queue at any moment in time, waiting to be reviewed. If the owners don't want to part with their equipment for a longer period of time, it's they who are not willing to wait for that. And I'm not blaming them. The fact that you think this product is more important than any of the others, doesn't make it objectively truth. It's just your opinion.
@HarmonicTHD What is being alleged? I find the situation mentioned by Berren777 strange. That’s my opinion. The original review is misleading to those who purchase new Denon is it not?
@voodooless Yes, it is my opinion, that’s what finding it strange means… reading is hard isn’t it. You don’t have to agree with me finding is strange but to try to negate my opinion by silly, insulting comments doesn't really work.
@voodooless Yes, it is my opinion, that’s what finding it strange means… reading is hard isn’t it. You don’t have to agree with me finding is strange but to try to negate my opinion by silly, insulting comments doesn't really work.
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HarmonicTHD
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You alleged that there is some kind of conspiracy that the Denon amps with the new DAC chips have not been tested by ASR. (Your words „… you find it strange…“)
Either present facts or explain yourself.
Or even better provide an AVR to be tested.
That is an interesting interpretation you have.
Is the review misleading, or is Denon misleading?
Did WhatHifi update its review?
Did Sound And Vision update its review?
Did Home theatre Review update its review?
Nope, nobody did. Could there be a message indicating that the current product is no longer the same spec? Sure, I'd like to see that.
We could just ask @amirm nicely. He can then also explain why or why he does not do this, and we can then agree or not. And that's then the end of it.
In the end, it's Denon that did this. They are responsible for the lower spec. They should be responsible for informing their customers.
So here's what ya do.
Be a really standup member, buy it and have it dropshipped to Amir.
He'll get to it and then send it back to ya.
TIA, Sal
@voodooless I completely agree that Denon is being less than transparent, but I still find it strange that the opportunity hasn’t been taken to prioritise retesting of the Denons for the reasons I have stated. That is all I have said. It’s interesting how some are interpreting that.
I am considering buying one but I fear that by the time Amir decides to test it, whenever that may be, I would be out of the returns window should it provide concerning results, especially considering it would be sent across the Atlantic.
I am considering buying one but I fear that by the time Amir decides to test it, whenever that may be, I would be out of the returns window should it provide concerning results, especially considering it would be sent across the Atlantic.
HarmonicTHD
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Nobody sent an amp for testing for whatever reasons. You don’t want to either for your reasons. Again, what is so strange about it and what are you implying?
The problem with shipping a Denon 4700/6700 to ASR for testing is these units are easily damaged in shipping. The boxes are typically strong enough to withstand one trip without problems, but if you have it shipped to you, then ASR and back - it's highly likely the life of the unit may be degraded if not in need of immediate repair. Having the manufacture involved in supplying the unit reduces customer risk. However, Denon is happy with the current review (with old parts) so they may not be motivated until the 4800/6800 is shipping.
I belief Denon should have changed their info on their websites that said AKM was supplying the DAC. However I also believe Denon engineered a very good alternative with the stereo PCM DAC’s replacing the double AKM’s. Yes, SINAD will be not on par but in the real life integration into the other ‘bottle necking’ components, it will probably not be noticeable. You could probably even argue DAC’s from AKM or perhaps ESS are more of a marketing thing in the whole box as long as other components even have more impact on the performance. But for those who belief they are capable of hearing a few dB SINAD, difference while listening to (almost) reference level bullets, planes, rockets and other stuff flying through your living room, please don’t feel offended. And for Amir; he doesn’t shy away from not advising Sound United boxes…
I’m happy with my 4700 and will in the future take advantage of new developments and probably better components. Until then this box will do.
I’m happy with my 4700 and will in the future take advantage of new developments and probably better components. Until then this box will do.
Not true unfortunately! "network", if using the main zone, still uses the AK4458, the PCM5100s are used for zone2 and 3. Pretty sure when Amir tested network, he was still using the main zone. If he measured the same on Z2, then he would have tested the PCM5100 that is a 2 channel DAC chip.
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