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Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
- Thread starter bigguyca
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multisport4me
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LOL. I actually used a cheap one of these that connects to my iPhone to verify the chips in the Marantz AV8805A. Worked like a charm for me.There's at least one way to know for sure.
with the way that Denon Marantz surround equipment benches many people would surmise that having better dacs isnt going to make for better charts given there's so many levels of processing AND a general lack of "design hygiene™" that by the time the signal reaches the dacs its aleady far too 'polluted' anyway for 'better' dacs to make any difference.
Yes I believe I'll hang on to my 8802a for now
bgalakazam
Member
So I am looking for an upgrade for my TX-RZ830 (not just DAC, other aspects, too). It has the AK4458 DAC. I was looking into a X4700H or potentially a X6700H. Sounds like it will be a downgrade for the DAC side if I do now?
It's a little academic, as it is below the threshold of audibility....
But you might want to wait for the next generation of AVR's - the high end ones should get the new generation AKM chips (or ESS)
Personally I am hoping for the flagship range from Onkyo to be released in January... they should be AKM...
But you might want to wait for the next generation of AVR's - the high end ones should get the new generation AKM chips (or ESS)
Personally I am hoping for the flagship range from Onkyo to be released in January... they should be AKM...
Hello everyone,
I have the v2 version of the 4700. Bought it 2 months ago. I listened with a power amp and standalone. I'VE read so much about the DAC situation. I have come to terms that I wouldn't be surprised if this change isn't as good if not better than the last review. It sounds awesome! Let your ears be the judge and not outside influences. I respect everyone's opinion, but in the end it's what you decide for yourself!
peace out,
Anthony
I have the v2 version of the 4700. Bought it 2 months ago. I listened with a power amp and standalone. I'VE read so much about the DAC situation. I have come to terms that I wouldn't be surprised if this change isn't as good if not better than the last review. It sounds awesome! Let your ears be the judge and not outside influences. I respect everyone's opinion, but in the end it's what you decide for yourself!
peace out,
Anthony
GiBo61
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The point is that you have spent a lot of money on a product with modest performance as regards the most relevant part, i.e. the audio section. Your ears would have been just as pleased with an AVR with similar modest instrument measurements that costs half the price and sounds like yours. Obviously it's another matter if money isn't a problem for you. In summary for ~$2000 (that was the price until last November) a consumer should expect more from Denon.
It probably does, congratz
If this forum has taught us one thing, it's not to absolutely trust your senses when it comes to audio. There is too much bias to make a good judgment call only on your ears, precisely because it's never only your ears.
Exactly. Don't be fooled by your ears, or what people say. Look at all the information provides, and make up your mind.
To be fair. I would not expect that anyone would hear the difference between the two versions in a controlled test. Possibly with high-efficiency speakers the noise difference may be audible, but that's about it.
But in the end, it's not really about that. It's about engineering a product that is objectively at least as good as the one before, not significantly worse. This should not be rewarded.
I don't disagree that the change of the DAC IC likely wouldn't change perceived sound quality, except your "Let your ears be the judge and not outside influences" is not only a controversial topic, but also contradictory. Judging by ears is actually one way to be subjected to outside influences such as by the eyes, and memories of reading all sorts of marketing material, forum talks, Youtuber reviews, print magazine reviews etc.
Regardless, congrats to your success in getting a 4700, that I assume would be a good deal since it was discontinued already.Thanks Peng. You are the audio "GURU"! So now for the punchline...I sent the 4700 back and got the NAD C399. Words are hard to describe the difference in sound. I have it matched up with the Revel 106's. The xtra money was well worth it.I don't disagree that the change of the DAC IC likely wouldn't change perceived sound quality, except your "Let your ears be the judge and not outside influences" is not only a controversial topic, but also contradictory. Judging by ears is actually one way to be subjected to outside influences such as by the eyes, and memories of reading all sorts of marketing material, forum talks, Youtuber reviews, print magazine reviews etc.
CyrusTheGreat_600BC
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Not to defend 4700 v2 in any shape or form, but isn’t NAD C399 a stereo amp? Hard to wrap my mind how it can help playing any Atmos content. The other NAD receiver also is only 4K so no HDMI 2.1 there either. The only promising receivers maybe able to compete with last generation Denon sound quality are Onkyo RZ70 and Sony new ES series.
tjcinnamon
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To “bypass” the AVR could I use an external DAC and connect the RCA outs on the external DAC to the Analog in on the Denon while in Direct Mode?
PC —USB—> External DAC —RCA—> Analog-In AVR —pre out of AVR—> amp
I have the following configuration:
- Movies; 1. 4K Bluray player/Netflix from Apple TV/Netflix from TV app -> 2. Connected to 4700 by HDMI (eARC in case of TV app) -> FULL 7.1.4 Atmos setup WITH Marantz MM7025 via pre-out to Front L and R speakers -> conversion done by internal TI 5102 DAC's => GREAT! even though SINAD low(ish...)
- Stereo; 1. iPad/iPhone -> via Airplay2 to 4700 -> etc. => Great sound
- Stereo (2); Airplay2 to Argon Solo stream with ESS DAC -> analog RCA input in 4700 -> etc. (conversion done by ESS in Argon Solo) => also great
- Stereo (3); Argon Solo -> Topping E30 -> analog RCA input in 4700 -> etc. (conversion done by AKM in Topping) => also great
- Stereo (4); iPad/iPhone -> USB-C cable -> Topping E30 -> analog RCA input in 4700 -> etc. (conversion done by AKM in Topping) => also great AND even HiRes!
So; yes there are many ways to have your signal converted. In my examples I can do a lot of A vs. B vs. C vs. D testing and honestly, you cannot hear any difference as the speakers in each stereo-config, as well as the Marantz power amp, determine the 'sound'. Anyone still making claims being able to hear the difference is talking xxxxxxx. My (experienced) listening friends couldn't hear the difference when being blind audited by me. I ran all the 1 - 4 Stereo setup's and no one guessed right which config was playing.
I was able to source the Argon Solo and the Topping E30 very cheap so hence the experiment. The sound difference you will hear is indeed whether Audyssey is applied or not, how your room is decorated/setup and of course which speakers you use. I also use expensive Audioquest cables to my front L and R (Wharfedale EVO 4.4) and and expensive Audioquest RCA-cable between the 4700 and the Marantz MM7025... I can't hear the difference. I play most of my music in 'stereo' as it uses Audyssey and makes the whole listening experience so much better than 'Direct' or 'Pure Direct'. And streaming directly to my 4700 via Airplay is by far the preferred method.
So the answer to your question; YES you can bypass any sound modification in your planned config. I doubt however whether you listening experience will be any better though...
You cannot bypass the AVR as such obviously, if you connect your external DAC to the AVR, but you can bypass the AVR's DAC. At least that's the way it would work in the previous generation D+M AVRs.
For the current generations, there are no service manuals available so we have to rely on that Masimo training video and based on the block diagram below, I would also say the same will still apply, that is, you can bypass the AVR's ADC and DAC in direct or pure direct mode:
tjcinnamon
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Perfect!
I basically want to do an external DAC from my Pc in Pure Direct. I’ll use my Pc for all kinds of room correction.
I LOVE Audyssey MQX but I figured this will be a good tinkering opportunity with other plugins specifically for music.
At the end of the day, HEOS and MQX could be the end game but I’ve found love in playing.
ban25
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