• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,274
Likes
984
Something has arcam or nad brands that everyone talks about their musicality and clarity thanks to dirac by the way peng when I listen to stereo I notice how the left side sounds more present than the right and they are all matched with a sonometer do you know where the error can be?
Was it like that too in pure direct mode? Did you experience the same with another AVR, like the one you had before?
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Was it like that too in pure direct mode? Did you experience the same with another AVR, like the one you had before?
I have not tried the direct mode tomorrow I will tell you but I would swear that I did not pass with other receivers!
 

cobhc

New Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
1
Likes
0
Hi all,

Read this forum many times but never made an account. Thank you to @amirm for the amazing reviews.

Am I correct in saying that from reading the graphs/review that the preamp/DAC in this receiver is pretty good but it's the poweramps that fall short?

If so, that's interesting as I've read the opposite from a lot of other forums.

The main reason I ask is that I have the X6500H which I believe has a similar DAC to this receiver and have been considering buying an integrated amp with HT Bypass to use with it, but now I'm wondering if a poweramp would be sufficient for a boost in quality in 2 channel?

Thanks.
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Hi all,

Read this forum many times but never made an account. Thank you to @amirm for the amazing reviews.

Am I correct in saying that from reading the graphs/review that the preamp/DAC in this receiver is pretty good but it's the poweramps that fall short?

If so, that's interesting as I've read the opposite from a lot of other forums.

The main reason I ask is that I have the X6500H which I believe has a similar DAC to this receiver and have been considering buying an integrated amp with HT Bypass to use with it, but now I'm wondering if a poweramp would be sufficient for a boost in quality in 2 channel?

Thanks.
Hi the 6500 mounts an akm4458 mumticanal dac the 8500 mounts 8 dac akm4490eq stereo, amir's review was in two channel mode and he commented that the sinad that the dac offers is cleaner using its preout with external amplifiers than if we use it internally. But I think that sinad is inaudible and it would start to fall from the volume of 82.5 which is crazy ... you will have plenty of power with the 8500 and its stereo is very good although an integrated would never hurt! The 8500 sounds more natural and muscular than his younger brother.
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,274
Likes
984
Hi all,

The main reason I ask is that I have the X6500H which I believe has a similar DAC to this receiver and have been considering buying an integrated amp with HT Bypass to use with it, but now I'm wondering if a poweramp would be sufficient for a boost in quality in 2 channel?

Thanks.
Different DAC as Anterantz mentioned. The power amps are the same, but obviously the X8500H has a larger power supply, and better heat sinks too.
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Different DAC as Anterantz mentioned. The power amps are the same, but obviously the X8500H has a larger power supply, and better heat sinks too.
Hi Peng if you look at the stages they have several different components, capacitors, resistors etc ... I doubt they sound similar! a greeting
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,274
Likes
984
Hi Peng if you look at the stages they have several different components, capacitors, resistors etc ... I doubt they sound similar! a greeting
Yes, that why I said the amp section was the same but not the power supply. Obviously the big one has bigger caps, but that's only those in the power supply. I am 100% sure in blind test you won't be able to tell them apart unless you push the one with the weaker power supply to the limit.

By the way, my comments were made after I compared the schematics for both to make sure their power amps are in fact the same in terms of circuity and parts. Actually, even the test voltage point values were the same as shown in the power amp schematics.
 

bigguyca

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
250
Likes
350
Hi all,

Read this forum many times but never made an account. Thank you to @amirm for the amazing reviews.

Am I correct in saying that from reading the graphs/review that the preamp/DAC in this receiver is pretty good but it's the poweramps that fall short?

If so, that's interesting as I've read the opposite from a lot of other forums.

The main reason I ask is that I have the X6500H which I believe has a similar DAC to this receiver and have been considering buying an integrated amp with HT Bypass to use with it, but now I'm wondering if a poweramp would be sufficient for a boost in quality in 2 channel?

Thanks.
Did you see actual measurements of the power amplifier channels in other forums? Often since the X8500H costs more it will be considered to have better everything. That isn't the case.

In the measurements here on ASR the amplifier sections of the X3700H and X4700H, while offering perhaps 1dB less power, provided better measured performance.

The X8500H offered the best preamp performance and offers more channels. The X6700H was next.

It very easy to be affected by the price differences in these components, even when knowing price bias is an actual effect.

Here is a link to a post that provides a bit more insight into the ASR results and the implication of these results on purchasing decisions:

(735) Choosing between the Denon X8500H, X6700H, X4700H and X3700H (Updated) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 

bigguyca

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
250
Likes
350
Hi Peng if you look at the stages they have several different components, capacitors, resistors etc ... I doubt they sound similar! a greeting
A more interesting question is why the X3700h and X4700H power amplifiers have better measured performance than the X6700/X8500H. The design of the amplifier channels between the two sets of AVR's in quite different. For some reason separate boards for each power amplifier channel are equated with better performance and offering some sort of advantage. This is not the case with these products.

The two lower cost units appear to make better use of their heat sinks as well since the heat sink temperatures are more even and lower Take a look at the layout of the power transistors on the heat sinks and you'll get one potential reason of why this is the case.

The rail voltages are essentially the same among these products. The bias voltage and power transistor emitter resistors have the same value. This means the idle output heat per channel should be about the same.
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Did you see actual measurements of the power amplifier channels in other forums? Often since the X8500H costs more it will be considered to have better everything. That isn't the case.

In the measurements here on ASR the amplifier sections of the X3700H and X4700H, while offering perhaps 1dB less power, provided better measured performance.

The X8500H offered the best preamp performance and offers more channels. The X6700H was next.

It very easy to be affected by the price differences in these components, even when knowing price bias is an actual effect.

Here is a link to a post that provides a bit more insight into the ASR results and the implication of these results on purchasing decisions:

(735) Choosing between the Denon X8500H, X6700H, X4700H and X3700H (Updated) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
You can believe what you want I have had the denon 4500 and for two years an 8500 and it is night and day! Measurements are of little use, only what you notice with your ear works ... if everything were so easy everyone would buy the avc x3600h
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2020
Messages
67
Likes
38
I have not tried the direct mode tomorrow I will tell you but I would swear that I did not pass with other receivers!
Did you try the direct mode? If so what are the results? I'm hearing the same issue and I checked all my connections but vocals are being pulled to the left of the sound stage when they should be in the middle. Driving me nuts. I think I have sinus issues going on and maybe my right ear is more affected.
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Did you try the direct mode? If so what are the results? I'm hearing the same issue and I checked all my connections but vocals are being pulled to the left of the sound stage when they should be in the middle. Driving me nuts. I think I have sinus issues going on and maybe my right ear is more affected.
Hello mate, I tried everything and the voices continue to sound more in the front left according to the spl everything is fine but I don't know if Audyssey has applied any phase or delay adjustment! I have half fixed it by uploading manual + 2db to the front right and it seems to have improved .. could it be a firmware problem?
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2020
Messages
67
Likes
38
Hello mate, I tried everything and the voices continue to sound more in the front left according to the spl everything is fine but I don't know if Audyssey has applied any phase or delay adjustment! I have half fixed it by uploading manual + 2db to the front right and it seems to have improved .. could it be a firmware problem?
I'm running firmware version: 7000-6144-5161-3085
DTS: 4.30.10.10
Even though my speakers are the same distance from my listening position, Audyssey found the left speaker to be 5 inches further and lower the dB to -2.5, and the right is at -2.0. Audyssey settings should be bypassed when we are listening in a pure mode and yet I still hear the same thing. I'm using the Audyseey phone app and limiting all the DSP corrections to 350Hz for the front channels. I've noticed this recently and still hoping it has to do something with my right ear and sinus problem since nothing else changed in my system besides the new calibration. Weird...
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
I'm running firmware version: 7000-6144-5161-3085
DTS: 4.30.10.10
Even though my speakers are the same distance from my listening position, Audyssey found the left speaker to be 5 inches further and lower the dB to -2.5, and the right is at -2.0. Audyssey settings should be bypassed when we are listening in a pure mode and yet I still hear the same thing. I'm using the Audyseey phone app and limiting all the DSP corrections to 350Hz for the front channels. I've noticed this recently and still hoping it has to do something with my right ear and sinus problem since nothing else changed in my system besides the new calibration. Weird...
Hello, the same thing happens to me, the sound sitting together in front of me, I notice how the sound comes more from the left side than the right, and I'm flying in case it's from the av but I doubt it is from my ear or from the av since the same thing happens to you! Have you tried resetting and calibrating again?
 

peng

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,274
Likes
984
Hello, the same thing happens to me, the sound sitting together in front of me, I notice how the sound comes more from the left side than the right, and I'm flying in case it's from the av but I doubt it is from my ear or from the av since the same thing happens to you! Have you tried resetting and calibrating again?
You really should try and find out why. I have had encounter such an issue with my several Denon and Marantz units. If you have run auto setup properly, you should not have such issue. Was the room noisy the last time you ran setup? I highly doubt the hardware (the AVR) is the problem.

By the way, have you try using a spl meter to confirm one side is louder, when playing a testtone?
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
You really should try and find out why. I have had encounter such an issue with my several Denon and Marantz units. If you have run auto setup properly, you should not have such issue. Was the room noisy the last time you ran setup? I highly doubt the hardware (the AVR) is the problem.

By the way, have you try using a spl meter to confirm one side is louder, when playing a testtone?
Both are nailed with the spl meter ... I'll keep investigating!
 

Bear123

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
524
Likes
782

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17
Hello guys, I am not clear about the problem that amir discovered about the distortion in the D / M when it was used in two channels, the output configuration of the pc should be in 2.1 or 7.1?
 

eduardw

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
61
Likes
21
Location
Netherlands
Hello guys, I am not clear about the problem that amir discovered about the distortion in the D / M when it was used in two channels, the output configuration of the pc should be in 2.1 or 7.1?
Hi not sure what your referring to, but i have a 3700h connected by hdmi to my windows pc. When my pc is setup for 7.1 out but I feed the denon only 2 channel with the 7.1 out config. Then in stereo mode on the denon everything is okay but surround mode gives a lot of distortion on the center channel other surround channels are silent I think. Only the front left and right produce good sound in surround mode. When I change the output on my pc to stereo then also the surround modes on the denon are fine for every channel. I have a ticket raised by denon for a couple of month but I think there still blaming my pc and not the denon.

Eduard
 

Anterantz

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
17



Hello guys, investigating a bit of the guts of the avc x8500h, I observe that the front monobloc amplifiers are the ones that are closest to the display screen, I understand that they will have less interference but I also observe that all the stages have the same capacitors and capacitors. What should have improved performance on the front channels? And I wonder seeing that they are loose blocks, could these pieces be improved only in the two front channels and improve their sound?
 
Top Bottom