Denon AVR Models with Best eARC

[kyuu]

I think the tv as switching center is an extremely poor choice.

I dunno, I didn't mind it that much. Then again, I went back to the AVR when there was no longer a disadvantage, so.

 

[Chrispy]

I dunno, I didn't mind it that much. Then again, I went back to the AVR when there was no longer a disadvantage, so.

Can't imagine using tv as a central unit myself. None of my various tvs make that an option. What tvs do you use? How do you change between your avr and display particularly?

 

[kyuu]

Can't imagine using tv as a central unit myself. None of my various tvs make that an option. What tvs do you use? How do you change between your avr and display particularly?

Not sure I understand. All the video was going to the TV, and I switched between the sources as you do on a TV. The audio was passed through to the AVR via eARC. I never had to switch to the AVR at all since it was never a source, only a destination for the audio.

 

[Sharok]

I don't know what you mean by "decoding bits". Are you talking about the bit rate? Nothing over 16-bits is needed, but in any case the Denon X3800 (or the older X3600 or X3700) or above should do everything you want (I'm not aware of any AVRs with better performance than Denon). Yeah, you're getting more channels of amplification than you need but getting more channels is part of getting a higher-end AVR. You're also getting the best Audyssey, which you want, or the option to use a Dirac license.

You can get a refurb X3800 for a good price here, assuming you're in the U.S.

Hi kyuu,
Why nothing better than 16 bits is needed? I'm trying to learn.

If the recorded movie soundtrack is 24bit/48KHz, why not higher bit rate for output?

 

[kyuu]

Hi kyuu,
Why nothing better than 16 bits is needed? I'm trying to learn.

If the recorded movie soundtrack is 24/48, why not higher bit rate for output?

Because all a higher bit rate gets you is more dynamic range and a lower noise floor, but 16 bits with dithering gets you all the dynamic range a human ear can possibly use and then some and an inaudible noise floor. More bits doesn't hurt, but it doesn't do anything for you either. In any case, the X3800 supports up to 24 bits, so you're covered if you get it.

If you'd like to learn more, I highly recommend checking out this video:

 

[Sharok]

Because all a higher bit rate gets you is more dynamic range and a lower noise floor, but 16 bits with dithering gets you all the dynamic range a human ear can possibly use and then some and an inaudible noise floor. More bits doesn't hurt, but it doesn't do anything for you either. In any case, the X3800 supports up to 24 bits, so you're covered if you get it.

If you'd like to learn more, I highly recommend checking out this video:

Appreciate it. that's the one I'll go for (3700)

 

[JRowland]

I use external amp for my 5.1 system and only two sources.
This is a little confusing. Looking for a Denon for my 5.1 system, all the low channel AVRs have low SINAD, low number of decoding bits, and some don't even have a "pre-out" feature.
Do you know of any AVR or processor matching my system with a high bit decoding power (at least 18 bits) and good SINAD from any brand?
They all sell AVRs with low number of channels but the sound quality is low also, why is that?

I recently chose the x4800h for the same 5.1 purpose, I use seperate amps for all the channels and only use it as a pre amp/processor. It works great, I’m super happy with it for audio and video. The 3800 is fine too I believe, my choice for the 4800 was it is/was a Japanese company and that particular unit is manufactured in Japan as well. Purely personal and just a gut decision, I’m sure I’d be just as happy with the 3800 for my purpose. I had a Yamaha RXA4A for a minute and it was nice, only had front L/R pre outs if I remember right. I wasn’t using separate amps yet and had different speakers but it sounded fine and worked well for audio and video. The A6A would be nice, the bench test on Audioholics almost made me grab it instead of the Denon when the A4a went wonky and I returned it. YPAO was nice, I liked the sound but as I suspected I like Audyssey better. That’s not a sound thing but a functionality difference, and multi sub as well for me makes Denon the better choice. I sometimes like listening to music with surround decoding instead of the normal 2 channel and I think Yamaha is better there if that is something that even matters.

 

[Sharok]

I'm a little surprised to look at the measurements and see an AVR like 3700h has a better overall performance than Emotiva XMC-1 which is an audio processor and costs even more than 3700.

 

[kyuu]

If there's one thing my time on this site has taught me, it's that there is absolutely no correlation between price or high-end branding and performance.

 

[Oddball]

Not sure I understand. All the video was going to the TV, and I switched between the sources as you do on a TV. The audio was passed through to the AVR via eARC. I never had to switch to the AVR at all since it was never a source, only a destination for the audio.

Agreed. No major drawback from using TV as the hub provided that eArc is functioning properly. In fact I would say that the purist argument could be to connect the higher bandwidth signal (video) to display to shorten the transport route, and then ship back lower bandwidth signal (audio) to AVR. Don't think that makes sense in practice, but in theory I could see it standing on at least tiptoes.

The fact that all are used to AVRs as switching hubs is no longer relevant with modern TVs.

 

[renzoe]

Agreed. No major drawback from using TV as the hub provided that eArc is functioning properly. In fact I would say that the purist argument could be to connect the higher bandwidth signal (video) to display to shorten the transport route, and then ship back lower bandwidth signal (audio) to AVR. Don't think that makes sense in practice, but in theory I could see it standing on at least tiptoes.

The fact that all are used to AVRs as switching hubs is no longer relevant with modern TVs.

Hi! While most of what you say it's true, there are some limitations with some TVs. For instance, I have an an LG C1 55' , and it doesn't do DTS passthrough! They did not pay the license, so only way to play a DTS source it's only by directly put the HDMI in your DTS-capable AVR input.
Another limitation I encountered/solved, the Nintendo Switch only supports multichannel using (uncompressed of course) PCM , and I think eARC (or at least my TV) can not passthrough that...

Also, most TVs have a few HDMI inputs (e.g., C1 has four, one of which eARC , so only three for inputs). When you start branching several video-related generators (external TV box, gaming console.s), three HDMI inputs goes very fast... Also, you will lose the possibility to see the AVR menu on the TV (information, etc).

So the HDMI inputs of the AVR are very important and likely the HUB still (at leas in my case.. I even.run out of HDMI inputs so I use all I can use... AVR and TV lol...).

Btw, I have a Denon AVC-3800H, very happy with it! (Though considering external amping for front L/R... Upgraditis?)

Regards fellow listeners

EDIT: Added PCM multichannel experience

 

[RedCannon]

Another limitation I encountered/solved, the Nintendo Switch only supports multichannel using (uncompressed of course) PCM , and I think eARC (or at least my TV) can not passthrough that...

Earc can passthrough multichannel PCM. It might just be your tv. My Switch says my tv is not supported with multichannel PCM, but yet when I select MPCM my AVR reads it just fine as multichannel from the tv's earc.

 

[EWL5]

Earc can passthrough multichannel PCM. It might just be your tv. My Switch says my tv is not supported with multichannel PCM, but yet when I select MPCM my AVR reads it just fine as multichannel from the tv's earc.

This is exactly why I've long given up on a true ARC/eARC setup. The promise was very ideal but required ALL manufacturers to cooperate. You might have better luck getting 3d graders to sit quietly in a classroom for 1 hour straight!

 

[renzoe]

Earc can passthrough multichannel PCM. It might just be your tv. My Switch says my tv is not supported with multichannel PCM, but yet when I select MPCM my AVR reads it just fine as multichannel from the tv's earc.

Hi, I stand corrected then. Yes, must be a limitation of my TV/HDMI handshake with the Nintendo Switch (I did not try your trick, maybe works!).

Anyway, for audio, from my experience, nothing better than plug HDMI directly to the AVR (better negotiates the supported audio codecs)... at least for AVRs that support the latest HDMI standards (but in general, TVs are faster to adopt the latest HDMI standards , because they are in 1-year release cycles.. so in certain cases first TV might make sense).

 

[middlemarch]

Also, most TVs have a few HDMI inputs (e.g., C1 has four, one of which eARC , so only three for inputs). When you start branching several video-related generators (external TV box, gaming console.s), three HDMI inputs goes very fast... Also, you will lose the possibility to see the AVR menu on the TV (information, etc).

Is this still true? I don't use ARC, but a good friend recently upgraded from a Denon 5200 to a 6700. With the 5200, when using the ARC channel, none of the AVR displays would show on the TV. When he upgraded to the 6700 he also went to a new Sony Bravia TV. I urged him to not use the ARC channel, but they had become accustomed to using the apps on the TV so he connected via the eARC channel. Surprise, he told me he was able to see all the AVR menu and info displays when he did that.

Since the eARC channel physically supports video in either direction, I can see the possibility is there, but the TV has to be able to superimpose two video feeds to be able to do this. Certainly possible, but they didn't seem able to do that formerly. Has this changed at some point? (must have in the case of my friend)

 

[renzoe]

Is this still true? I don't use ARC, but a good friend recently upgraded from a Denon 5200 to a 6700. With the 5200, when using the ARC channel, none of the AVR displays would show on the TV. When he upgraded to the 6700 he also went to a new Sony Bravia TV. I urged him to not use the ARC channel, but they had become accustomed to using the apps on the TV so he connected via the eARC channel. Surprise, he told me he was able to see all the AVR menu and info displays when he did that.

Since the eARC channel physically supports video in either direction, I can see the possibility is there, but the TV has to be able to superimpose two video feeds to be able to do this. Certainly possible, but they didn't seem able to do that formerly. Has this changed at some point? (must have in the case of my friend)

Hi, I am not sure I understoond 100% your friend's set-up/ experience. But I can tell you mine in more detail,
eARC should be connected into the labeled eARC HDMI ports in both your TV and the AVR.
My TV has only one HDMI port labeled eARC (HDMI port #2), the remaining other three ports are all HDMI 2.1 (no eARC)

When on the TV I select as input the HDMI #2 (eARC) y see whatever my AVR is sending me (Denon 3800), including the menu, it is the AVR that has the original video signal and it can superimpose his menu, on whatever I have (Nintendo, android tv...), this works.

What does not work, is what i tried to put in my post, is if I use the raw TV HDMI ports #1, #3 or #4 of course I get the video signal, and the audio works (thanks to eARC)... but you can no longer have the menu from the AVR . A TV I guess will not show two HDMI inputs super imposed, it makes no-sense (however, picture in picture could be... but my tv does not have that).

Hope this clarifies my remark, at least is like this in my case.

Regards.