Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

[pmar4015]

I realize the following is controversial (in terms of efficacy (or lack thereof)) but I can’t help but think there may be some benefit in bi-amping my front Left and Right Revel F208 speakers in my current 7.1.2 setup. To complicate matters, I am running Three Outlaw 2220s to power my FRONT Left, Center, and Right speakers (center speaker is a Klipsch R-5800 W II (behind an acoustically transparent projection screen)).

I am thinking that if I repurpose two of the three Outlaw 2220s for use as external amplification to power my two main surrounds (keeping one Outlaw 2220 powering my Center Channel (as I am doing now)) and then bi-amping my Revels via the onboard 8500HA amplifiers I ‘may’ receive some benefit considering the 8500HA has 13 on-board amplifiers and I am currently only using 6 on-board amplifiers (understanding the Outlaw 2220 is rated for 200 watts into 8 ohms but maybe if I bi-amp (thus using 8 on-board amplifiers) I can squeeze out maybe 250 watts per Left/Right channel?). My goal is to put as much power as I can into the Revels (given they are rated for up to 300 watts) using my current set-up.

Here is my current setup -

Receiver: Denon 8500HA (powering L/R Main Surround speakers; Top Middle Ceiling Atmos Speakers; Back surround Left/Right speakers)
External Amps: Three Outlaw Audio 2220 monoblocks (powering Main L/R/C speakers)
Speakers: (A) Bed Layer (7 spkrs) - (i) Front L/R: Revel Proforma3 F208; (ii) Center: Klipsch R-5800-W II (behind an acoustically transparent projection screen); (iii) Main Surround L/R: ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2; (iv) Rear Surround L/R: ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2 ; (B) Height Layer (2 speakers) (i) Top Middle L/R: Revel IW65; (C) Subwoofers (5 spkrs) - SVS PB-1000 (4 subs)/Monoprice Monolith M-215 (1 sub)
Gaming Console: XBOX Series X; Blu-ray Player: Sony UBP- X700(M); Projector: Sony VPL-VW325ES; Streaming Device: Apple TV (2021 gen)/Hardware DSP: MiniDSP 2X4 HD (Managing 3 subs (4 SVS PB-1000 co-located; collapsing into 2 subs)/Software DSP: MultEQ-X

Or maybe I just buy two more Outlaws 2220s to bi-amp the Revels (or just do nothing at all)?

Thoughts?

 

[peng]

I realize the following is controversial (in terms of efficacy (or lack thereof)) but I can’t help but think there may be some benefit in bi-amping my front Left and Right Revel F208 speakers in my current 7.1.2 setup. To complicate matters, I am running Three Outlaw 2220s to power my FRONT Left, Center, and Right speakers (center speaker is a Klipsch R-5800 W II (behind an acoustically transparent projection screen)).

I am thinking that if I repurpose two of the three Outlaw 2220s for use as external amplification to power my two main surrounds (keeping one Outlaw 2220 powering my Center Channel (as I am doing now)) and then bi-amping my Revels via the onboard 8500HA amplifiers I ‘may’ receive some benefit considering the 8500HA has 13 on-board amplifiers and I am currently only using 6 on-board amplifiers (understanding the Outlaw 2220 is rated for 200 watts into 8 ohms but maybe if I bi-amp (thus using 8 on-board amplifiers) I can squeeze out maybe 250 watts per Left/Right channel?). My goal is to put as much power as I can into the Revels (given they are rated for up to 300 watts) using my current set-up.

Here is my current setup -

Receiver: Denon 8500HA (powering L/R Main Surround speakers; Top Middle Ceiling Atmos Speakers; Back surround Left/Right speakers)
External Amps: Three Outlaw Audio 2220 monoblocks (powering Main L/R/C speakers)
Speakers: (A) Bed Layer (7 spkrs) - (i) Front L/R: Revel Proforma3 F208; (ii) Center: Klipsch R-5800-W II (behind an acoustically transparent projection screen); (iii) Main Surround L/R: ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2; (iv) Rear Surround L/R: ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2 ; (B) Height Layer (2 speakers) (i) Top Middle L/R: Revel IW65; (C) Subwoofers (5 spkrs) - SVS PB-1000 (4 subs)/Monoprice Monolith M-215 (1 sub)
Gaming Console: XBOX Series X; Blu-ray Player: Sony UBP- X700(M); Projector: Sony VPL-VW325ES; Streaming Device: Apple TV (2021 gen)/Hardware DSP: MiniDSP 2X4 HD (Managing 3 subs (4 SVS PB-1000 co-located; collapsing into 2 subs)/Software DSP: MultEQ-X

Or maybe I just buy two more Outlaws 2220s to bi-amp the Revels (or just do nothing at all)?

Thoughts?

I would suggest the first thing to do is to contact Revel (email customer support?) to find out if their so called "high frequency binding posts" are connected to both the tweeter and midrange driver. If yes, then I would say you may be right that your could squeeze effectively more than (I would guess just barely) 200 W from the AVR-X8500H by bi-amping the front left and right F208 speakers. The difference will be negligible, and also keep in mind even doubling the "power", you get only 3 dB more spl. If the "high frequency" binding posts feed only the tweeter, than I don't see any point because tweeters don't demand much power (current, really), unless you buy into the often claimed audible sonic benefits from separating the high frequency range current from the low frequency range current paths(that is, in the wires between the power amps and the binding posts). In that case, bi-amp would be better.

The benefit I see using the Denon amps is that they are straight class AB, whereas the Outlaw is class H, so at above 100 W output level the rail voltage will switch from normal to high and some people may argue, and/or claim that the effects from the switching would be, or just might be audible. I don't have that kind of ears, but just knowing about the rail voltage switching, one may be able to imagine something. To be clear, I don't believe that at all, I am just point out the facts.

As always, whether one can benefit from more power or not would depend a lot on one's listening habits. If the maximum spl you listen to is 3 dB higher than mine, your amp will need to have double the rated output of mine as well, on all else being equal basis. Likewise, if you seat 1.4 times further than me, then again your amps will need to be rated 2X that of mine.

So, it is better to estimate/calculate your actual need and then you will know the answer. Aside from the difference in output power (I prefer to use voltage and current, but I am okay to just go with the flow), I would say the Outlaw amp and the Denon amps are equal in terms of sonic transparency.

 

[pmar4015]

Thank you so much. Very helpful!

I neglected to mention I sit roughly 13’ feet away from the speakers in a: 25’ (Length) X 11’ (Width) X 6.5’ (Height) room.

Thanks again

 

[pmar4015]

I would suggest the first thing to do is to contact Revel (email customer support?) to find out if their so called "high frequency binding posts" are connected to both the tweeter and midrange driver. If yes, then I would say you may be right that your could squeeze effectively more than (I would guess just barely) 200 W from the AVR-X8500H by bi-amping the front left and right F208 speakers. The difference will be negligible, and also keep in mind even doubling the "power", you get only 3 dB more spl. If the "high frequency" binding posts feed only the tweeter, than I don't see any point because tweeters don't demand much power (current, really), unless you buy into the often claimed audible sonic benefits from separating the high frequency range current from the low frequency range current paths(that is, in the wires between the power amps and the binding posts). In that case, bi-amp would be better.

The benefit I see using the Denon amps is that they are straight class AB, whereas the Outlaw is class H, so at above 100 W output level the rail voltage will switch from normal to high and some people may argue, and/or claim that the effects from the switching would be, or just might be audible. I don't have that kind of ears, but just knowing about the rail voltage switching, one may be able to imagine something. To be clear, I don't believe that at all, I am just point out the facts.

As always, whether one can benefit from more power or not would depend a lot on one's listening habits. If the maximum spl you listen to is 3 dB higher than mine, your amp will need to have double the rated output of mine as well, on all else being equal basis. Likewise, if you seat 1.4 times further than me, then again your amps will need to be rated 2X that of mine.

So, it is better to estimate/calculate your actual need and then you will know the answer. Aside from the difference in output power (I prefer to use voltage and current, but I am okay to just go with the flow), I would say the Outlaw amp and the Denon amps are equal in terms of sonic transparency.

Circling back around on this, here is Harman’s response (I will see how the bi-amping goes)

Thank you for contacting Harman Luxury Audio Support.

The tweeter and the midrange are driven by the HF or the top terminals while the LF or the bottom terminals drive the woofers. Please refer to the owner's manual of the Revel F208 for the bi-amping instructions.

If you have questions, feel free to reply to this email.

 

[peng]

Circling back around on this, here is Harman’s response (I will see how the bi-amping goes)

Thank you for contacting Harman Luxury Audio Support.

The tweeter and the midrange are driven by the HF or the top terminals while the LF or the bottom terminals drive the woofers. Please refer to the owner's manual of the Revel F208 for the bi-amping instructions.

If you have questions, feel free to reply to this email.

Excellent, so then you will get a fair share of "power" gain if you biamp because the tweeter typically don't demand much, but mids could demand a much more significant current relatively speaking.

 

[Rstock10]

Love your reviews. I am currently running an RS-50 with Outlaw7000 for the ear-level speakers. I have been struggling with the immersion of the sound and have been tinkering. Fairly large room with okay acoustics.

I’m especially lacking in detail from the surround and height channels. I know they aren’t going to be dominate in movies but I am feeling the processing of the rz-50 is just lacking the “extra mile” I am looking for.

This just went on sale so I was curious if you or anyone feels it would be a big upgrade. Also open to pre/pro setup but doesn’t seem like anything in this price range compares from testing.

Thanks!