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Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

peng

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Hello guys, investigating a bit of the guts of the avc x8500h, I observe that the front monobloc amplifiers are the ones that are closest to the display screen, I understand that they will have less interference but I also observe that all the stages have the same capacitors and capacitors. What should have improved performance on the front channels? And I wonder seeing that they are loose blocks, could these pieces be improved only in the two front channels and improve their sound?
I wouldn't worry about such "interference", if it is an issue it would have been revealed in the measurements. Yes there's always going to be all sort of interference regardless of shielding and layout, but the effects won't likely be audible, its mostly academic.
 

Bear123

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Hello guys, investigating a bit of the guts of the avc x8500h, I observe that the front monobloc amplifiers are the ones that are closest to the display screen, I understand that they will have less interference but I also observe that all the stages have the same capacitors and capacitors. What should have improved performance on the front channels? And I wonder seeing that they are loose blocks, could these pieces be improved only in the two front channels and improve their sound?
Many folks tend to be overly obsessive with SINAD numbers that are far below the threshold of human hearing in real life. The performance you get from this AVR, wether from the pre-outs or just the internal amplifiers, will sound no different in real life wether you have a signal with .005% distortion(factory internal amps/DAC), or .0005%. That's why audiopohiles go crazy about the sound quality of NAD AVR's that have far worse SINAD. Which is still far better than the SINAD of vinyl, which is praised for sound quality from those who use it. Just putting things in perspective. When I say audible/inaudible, I'm not talking about playing an isolated test tone in dead silence in an anechoic chamber with headphones. Real life use in a home playing music or movies or TV. However, one can easily chase better numbers on paper by using an external amp.....just be sure to use one that is actually better than the Denon's internal amps. A huge percentage of highly regarded audiophile amps have far worse SINAD.
 

Anterantz

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If the spl meter "nails it" then if I understand what that means, auto setup nails it too right? So there is no issue with the avr, not Audyssey..either.:D
The meter shows the same on both channels but if you say everything is fine why do I hear the left channel a little more?
 

Anterantz

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Many folks tend to be overly obsessive with SINAD numbers that are far below the threshold of human hearing in real life. The performance you get from this AVR, wether from the pre-outs or just the internal amplifiers, will sound no different in real life wether you have a signal with .005% distortion(factory internal amps/DAC), or .0005%. That's why audiopohiles go crazy about the sound quality of NAD AVR's that have far worse SINAD. Which is still far better than the SINAD of vinyl, which is praised for sound quality from those who use it. Just putting things in perspective. When I say audible/inaudible, I'm not talking about playing an isolated test tone in dead silence in an anechoic chamber with headphones. Real life use in a home playing music or movies or TV. However, one can easily chase better numbers on paper by using an external amp.....just be sure to use one that is actually better than the Denon's internal amps. A huge percentage of highly regarded audiophile amps have far worse SINAD.
Hi, nad can have a worse sinad but not all of them are sinad, there is something that makes nad or arcam sound much better in stereo than Japanese and that is a fact! So there would be no audible differences at normal volume and using monitors from using internal amplifiers to using external ones?
 
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Bear123

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Hi, nobody can have a worse sinad but not all of them are sinad, there is something that makes nad or arcam sound much better in stereo than Japanese and that is a fact! So there would be no audible differences at normal volume and using monitors from using internal amplifiers to using external ones?
If you truly believe and perceive higher sound quality from Arcam and NAD, I'd buy one of those.
 

Bear123

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The meter shows the same on both channels but if you say everything is fine why do I hear the left channel a little more?
Maybe you have a discrepancy with your hearing.....both ears are tested individually during hearing tests and I think they are often different.
 
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The meter shows the same on both channels but if you say everything is fine why do I hear the left channel a little more?
Hi Anterantz,
FYI...
I fixed my problem by making the distance from the left speaker identical to my right (8.1 feet) and the level match as well and set it to -2.0dB. I used the mobile app and corrected it manually. This could be my error by not placing the mic in the dead middle or Audyssey got confused.
Everything is centered now. This is the first time I used the euro mic stand vs the tripod to hold the Denon mic.
Every time I do calibration I learn something new, hopefully, one of these days I will nail it :)
 

Dj7675

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Hi, nobody can have a worse sinad but not all of them are sinad, there is something that makes nad or arcam sound much better in stereo than Japanese and that is a fact! So there would be no audible differences at normal volume and using monitors from using internal amplifiers to using external ones?
Saying it is a fact, doesn’t make it a fact. It is something you believe to be true via listening. I am guessing not blind, not precisely level matched. Without that, confirmation/cognitive bias Is a scientifically proven, unavoidable thing. Many here have experienced it and it is crazy how much the brain messes up what you think you are hearing.. For example I was certain I could here the difference between 320K AAC and lossless audio. Did a double blind test and I couldn’t get more than 50/50. Double blind, all those obvious differences were gone. There are very good reasons that people don’t accept claims of x sounds so much better than y... maybe, but maybe not...
 

peng

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Hi, nobody can have a worse sinad but not all of them are sinad, there is something that makes nad or arcam sound much better in stereo than Japanese and that is a fact! So there would be no audible differences at normal volume and using monitors from using internal amplifiers to using external ones?
It is your belief, but it may or may not be "a fact". I bet you know that, so I think it may be Google translate messing it up again??:D:D
Anyway, even if that's what you are saying, you must know that many would disagree with you.
 
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Anterantz

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Hi Anterantz,
FYI...
I fixed my problem by making the distance from the left speaker identical to my right (8.1 feet) and the level match as well and set it to -2.0dB. I used the mobile app and corrected it manually. This could be my error by not placing the mic in the dead middle or Audyssey got confused.
Everything is centered now. This is the first time I used the euro mic stand vs the tripod to hold the Denon mic.
Every time I do calibration I learn something new, hopefully, one of these days I will nail it :)

If I did not misunderstand, can I solve it? What did he do? I detect that Audyseey, what do you see wrong?
 

Anterantz

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If you truly believe and perceive higher sound quality from Arcam and NAD, I'd buy one of those.
I only comment on what is heard in the thread of the nad or arcam when users change D / M I do not think that by paying more for the new avr they will be self-convinced .. much or everything I am sure it has to do thanks to dirac, what I will try and decide although I want to continue with this magnificent av that has not received such good reviews because yes ... I will try to see what I do about it!
 

Anterantz

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Hello, I have a question, according to amir, I measured a sinad of 85db with internal amplifiers. because so much difference in sinad to use external amplification, the dac is not the same? And second question I have bought a dac topping d90 which is better than the internal dac and I am wondering where I should connect it to skip the dac of the x8500h but use its amplification !! Will I improve the sinad in this way or is it only possible through external amplification?
 

peng

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Hello, I have a question, according to amir, I measured a sinad of 85db with internal amplifiers. because so much difference in sinad to use external amplification, the dac is not the same? And second question I have bought a dac topping d90 which is better than the internal dac and I am wondering where I should connect it to skip the dac of the x8500h but use its amplification !! Will I improve the sinad in this way or is it only possible through external amplification?
You can connect the analog out of the D90 to the analog input of the X8500H and play in direct or pure direct mode in order to bypass the internal ADC/DAC blocks. In theory you won't likely hear a difference because a) the internal DAC of the X8500H is good enough, so the bottleneck really is the power amp. Also in theory, even the AVR's 85 dB SINAD should not make an audible difference unless your room has exceptionally low noise floor and you listen to very loud level.
 
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You can connect the analog out of the D90 to the analog input of the X8500H and play in direct or pure direct mode in order to bypass the internal ADC/DAC blocks. In theory you won't likely hear a difference because a) the internal DAC of the X8500H is good enough, so the bottleneck really is the power amp. Also in theory, even the AVR's 85 dB SINAD should not make an audible difference unless your room has exceptionally low noise floor and you listen to very loud level.
I always wanted to talk about this part: "AVR's 85 dB SINAD should not make an audible difference unless your room has exceptionally low noise floor" and you are listening to the music material. How many members here have a listening space that is quieter than 30dB? The ONLY thing that sometimes bothers me is that at 5 watts, AVR doesn't have a 16 bit of dynamic range. Will I hear the difference if it did?
 

Anterantz

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You can connect the analog out of the D90 to the analog input of the X8500H and play in direct or pure direct mode in order to bypass the internal ADC/DAC blocks. In theory you won't likely hear a difference because a) the internal DAC of the X8500H is good enough, so the bottleneck really is the power amp. Also in theory, even the AVR's 85 dB SINAD should not make an audible difference unless your room has exceptionally low noise floor and you listen to very loud level.
So peng you better invest the money from the dac in a hypex amplifier since the denon dac is good and you would hardly notice differences with the topping?
 

peng

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So peng you better invest the money from the dac in a hypex amplifier since the denon dac is good and you would hardly notice differences with the topping?
Not really, because:
a) I don't have your hearing ability to tell a difference between the sound from the internal amp and external amps.:)
b) I am not using internal amps anyway, have not been for years.
c) My AVR is used as preamp/processor, my external DACs are all used in my two channel systems.
 

peng

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I always wanted to talk about this part: "AVR's 85 dB SINAD should not make an audible difference unless your room has exceptionally low noise floor" and you are listening to the music material. How many members here have a listening space that is quieter than 30dB? The ONLY thing that sometimes bothers me is that at 5 watts, AVR doesn't have a 16 bit of dynamic range. Will I hear the difference if it did?
Some people do listen to >85 dB with peaks potentially as high as 110 dB. Even then I don't believe they could tell a difference but the problem is they seem to always listen with not only ears but eyes as well.:D The beauty of having SINAD >115 dB is that, as per Benchmarks argument, then you don't have to rely on the music and noise masking effects. For me, even 75 dB is not a problem but that's just me.
 
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Some people do listen to >85 dB with peaks potentially as high as 110 dB. Even then I don't believe they could tell a difference but the problem is they seem to always listen with not only ears but eyes as well.:D The beauty of having SINAD >115 dB is that, as per Benchmarks argument, then you don't have to rely on the music and noise masking effects. For me, even 75 dB is not a problem but that's just me.
My exact point, Benchmark products are made for professionals and to be used in studios where such requirements exist. Just because audiophiles and alike adopted those products, they may not have the environment (living room and such) to fully hear the S/N "benefits". When I put my ear next to my KEF tweeter under normal volume level (64 on the scale), I don't hear much coming out. Only when I turn the volume all the way up (98 I think) is where hiss is noticeable from a 2-5 inch distance. The point being, it's a very quiet amplifier.
 
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