Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[peng]

Ok, got the reply from Flavio:

Flavio Fellah commented:
Hello,
yes, Dirac Bass Control applies a high pass filter but you can define at which frequency... very low if desired, please take into account though that the capabilities of reproducing the lowest frequencies at a relatively high volume are often very limited (hence a subwoofer is used)
However, if you want to take full advantage of all the capabilities of all speakers, then you need ART (Active Room Treatment) as it doesn't use crossovers.
It's possible that your Denon will support it but if/when are questions for Denon itself to answer View attachment 340991
Kind regards,
Flavio

Did you ask the wrong question? Phil Jones wasn't taking abut DLBC, of course DLBC applies HPF, it is bass control after all. He was talking about just the basic DL, with no BC. May be we do have to re-watch that video just to be sure, but I am sure enough that I won't be re-watching it today.

 

[davidc]

Did you ask the wrong question? Phil Jones wasn't taking abut DLBC, of course DLBC applies HPF, it is bass control after all. He was talking about just the basic DL, with no BC. May be we do have to re-watch that video just to be sure, but I am sure enough that I won't be re-watching it today.

No, I asked the correct question, and we also had been having a continuous discussion regarding Denon, DLBC, and ART regarding their functions, prices, and prerequisites.

Also, he is sort of familiar with the question as, as far as I know, he is the DIRAC contact that Audioholics and Denon talk to, although they don't usually name him.


Here is the question I posed to him:

Good Morning,

One last question regarding DLBC and the Denon AVRs.

Gene DellaSala of Audioholics and Phil Jones of Masimo mentioned that DLBC will put a high pass filter on the main L/R speakers when implemented. Given that I have main speakers capable of handling the bass, I may be sacrificing if I used even one subwoofer and DLBC, correct?.

Does DLBC use a non-defeatable high pass filter for the main channels?

Thank you.

David Crandon

 

[Steve Dallas]

Did you ask the wrong question? Phil Jones wasn't taking abut DLBC, of course DLBC applies HPF, it is bass control after all. He was talking about just the basic DL, with no BC. May be we do have to re-watch that video just to be sure, but I am sure enough that I won't be re-watching it today.

I can check this again this evening, but IIRC DL does not. It inherits what the AVR or user sets for speaker sizes, levels, distances, and crossover frequencies--likely from the initial Audyssey calibration, which Denon uses to set these variables. DL works across the broad spectrum as configured.

DLBC exposes a crossover slider in the DL UI that enables the user to set a crossover for each group of speakers.

 

[peng]

No, I asked the correct question, and we also had been having a continuous discussion regarding Denon, DLBC, and ART regarding their functions, prices, and prerequisites.

Also, he is sort of familiar with the question as, as far as I know, he is the DIRAC contact that Audioholics and Denon talk to, although they don't usually name him.


Here is the question I posed to him:

Good Morning,

One last question regarding DLBC and the Denon AVRs.

Gene DellaSala of Audioholics and Phil Jones of Masimo mentioned that DLBC will put a high pass filter on the main L/R speakers when implemented. Given that I have main speakers capable of handling the bass, I may be sacrificing if I used even one subwoofer and DLBC, correct?.

Does DLBC use a non-defeatable high pass filter for the main channels?

Thank you.

David Crandon

Okay then you have the question that I don't have, and I have the one that you don't have. Sounds funny but true. Your to do with DLBC, mine's about just DL, but the upcoming added feature Phil talked about. I hope tha's clear now.

 

[hiphop_odc]

Okay then you have the question that I don't have, and I have the one that you don't have. Sounds funny but true. Your to do with DLBC, mine's about just DL, but the upcoming added feature Phil talked about. I hope tha's clear now.

Maybe you think of bass management, that's a new free feature for DL

 

[ban25]

About 7 minutes into that video that @davidc posted. Still could do with some further elucidation as the mention is that of a HPF being applied to mains when you have additional subs. Not sure if it would be the case if your mains and ancillary speakers are effectively subs themselves.

When you use DLBC, the crossover is set by the user per speaker group. It is mandatory and defaults to 70 Hz, but you can set it to whatever you like. I believe it is possible to exclude a group of speakers, but if you do this, there will be no integration and (possibly) no correction to that speaker group.

DLBC is exclusively about subwoofers. If you don't have them, or want to run full-range speakers, don't use it, period.

 

[EWL5]

I can check this again this evening, but IIRC DL does not. It inherits what the AVR or user sets for speaker sizes, levels, distances, and crossover frequencies--likely from the initial Audyssey calibration. DL works across the broad spectrum as configured.

DLBC exposes a crossover slider in the DL UI that enables the user to set a crossover for each group of speakers.

This my understanding as well in my limited time w/DL.

 

[davidc]

Okay then you have the question that I don't have, and I have the one that you don't have. Sounds funny but true. Your to do with DLBC, mine's about just DL, but the upcoming added feature Phil talked about. I hope tha's clear now.

Yep, sorry about the confusion

 

[peng]

Maybe you think of bass management, that's a new free feature for DL

Yes, that's what I thought Phil alluded to.
Again, if he meant DLBC, there would have been no need to talk about it, because DLBC of couse will set crossovers, from launch time.

 

[David_Alexander]

Ok, got the reply from Flavio:

Flavio Fellah commented:
Hello,
yes, Dirac Bass Control applies a high pass filter but you can define at which frequency... very low if desired, please take into account though that the capabilities of reproducing the lowest frequencies at a relatively high volume are often very limited (hence a subwoofer is used)
However, if you want to take full advantage of all the capabilities of all speakers, then you need ART (Active Room Treatment) as it doesn't use crossovers.
It's possible that your Denon will support it but if/when are questions for Denon itself to answer View attachment 340991
Kind regards,
Flavio

Ok, but if you have full range speakers with the capability of going low, loud, as I suspect @SaChy has, then DLBC could work.

Although they are very well suited to DART, as and when this becomes available.

 

[hiphop_odc]

Yes, that's what I thought Phil alluded to.
Again, if he meant DLBC, there would have been no need to talk about it, because DLBC of couse will set crossovers, from launch time.

Bass management take control of the AVR's crossover, so your overwrite the ones in the Denon, and you can set it to whatever you want, like 67hz or 99hz. And you can see the calculated response

 

[peng]

Bass management take control of the AVR's crossover, so your overwrite the ones in the Denon, and you can set it to whatever you want, like 67hz or 99hz. And you can see the calculated response

I think you are correct, but I don't have a Denon so will take your words for it.

 

[Miker 1102]

I added DLBC to my full spectrum license using that discount. My results are here:

My first attempt at Dirac this morning (on the 3800)

Still not understanding why Dirac exists! Dirac Live applies some phase corrections and although I doubt the accuracy of these, Audyssey cannot do that at all. All its filters are in the frequency domain. Also Dirac Live can crossover subwoofer at any frequency (unlike the fixed frequencies of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And here is a decent roundup of the available DRC options in an X series Denon receiver:

Bass Performance of Audyssey vs Dirac Live vs Dirac Live Bass Control vs MSO

I discuss the bass performance of Audyssey, Dirac Live, Dirac Live Bass Control, Dirac Live ART and Multi-Sub Optimiser.

simplehomecinema.com

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I cannot hear much if any difference in my setup in my room. But I am in dedicated room with symmetrical placement of speakers and subs. Perhaps someone with a more complicated environment would benefit more.

Quite honestly, I think my Audyssey results, although a bit different, are just as good as my Dirac results and I could have skipped both licenses, but curiosity killed my wallet.

Thank you.

 

[mj30250]

At the moment I have a 5.2 setup. The subs are Hsu VTF-3 MK5s which are crossed at 80Hz. I have been thinking about adding a pair of Hsu ULS-15 MK2s to the system for use primarily as midbass modules. They have an "EQ2" setting which rolls off low frequencies at 50Hz to provide more midbass headroom. I would look to cross them at around 150Hz and place them next to the FL and FR speakers to avoid localization issues. The four independent sub-outs of the X4800H would help to get me started, but it doesn't seem that Audyssey XT32 allows for engaging separate LPFs for each set of subs. Is this possible with XT32? If not, what would be the next best options? Thanks.

 

[hiphop_odc]

At the moment I have a 5.2 setup. The subs are Hsu VTF-3 MK5s which are crossed at 80Hz. I have been thinking about adding a pair of Hsu ULS-15 MK2s to the system for use primarily as midbass modules. They have an "EQ2" setting which rolls off low frequencies at 50Hz to provide more midbass headroom. I would look to cross them at around 150Hz and place them next to the FL and FR speakers to avoid localization issues. The four independent sub-outs of the X4800H would help to get me started, but it doesn't seem that Audyssey XT32 allows for engaging separate LPFs for each set of subs. Is this possible with XT32? If not, what would be the next best options? Thanks.

I think you need Audyssey MultEQ-X for that

​

 

[mj30250]

I think you need Audyssey MultEQ-X for that

​

Is it definitely possible even with MultEQ-X? I scanned the user guide, and it's fairly sparse on details.

 

[ban25]

Is it definitely possible even with MultEQ-X? I scanned the user guide, and it's fairly sparse on details.

I don't recall if it can set multiple subwoofer crossovers or not. I believe you can download MQX and run it in a "demo mode" for free. That said, if you can't do it in the X4800H's setup menu, then I have 99% confidence it can't be done in MQX.

 

[Descartes]

An other review of this AVR

Denon AVR-X4800H AV Receiver Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Denon AVR-X4800H AV Receiver takes its place in the competitive $2500 MSRP arena for home theater receivers. This is a price point at...

hometheaterhifi.com

 

[peng]

An other review of this AVR

Denon AVR-X4800H AV Receiver Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Denon AVR-X4800H AV Receiver takes its place in the competitive $2500 MSRP arena for home theater receivers. This is a price point at...

hometheaterhifi.com

Thanks, that's a very detailed review, with measurements. The numbers are not as good as Amir's but are not too far off either. Different bench, by different people likely using slightly different protocols, bound to result in slightly different results. Even Dr. Rich mentioned the PCM5102A DAC chip is the weak link, not exactly his words but you get the idea.

 

[CapMan]

That’s a very reassuring review as a 4800
Owner !