rvsixer
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Spatial Audio category...?
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Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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LOL, depends on which way you look at it.
No, in many instances eARC will work without issue, specially if both the TV and the AVR are the latest builts.
OTOH it is known to cause all sort of headaches with this or that audio codec, etc, etc.
I can only recommend what is known to work easiest, across the board, for a complicated, ever changing HT landscape.
And that's to let the AVR handle input switching, using the TV simply as a monitor.
Same thoughts run true for streaming of video apps like Disney, Paramount, etc. A great dedicated streamer like a Apple TV or Shield will normally "in most cases" offer a better, more reliable result than the ones built into the TV running on top of a Google, Boxee, Android or whoever operating system.
YMMV
No problems with eARC and an LG G4 / 4800h here. PC, PS5 and streaming apps from TV all on eARC to the receiver. Makes for less switching. Only the Panasonic UHD player and a Chromecast 4k run through the receiver. Every sound format works .
Sometimes improper settings are used. Though if you are on this forum you probably tried everything.
Sometimes improper settings are used. Though if you are on this forum you probably tried everything.
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
True 'dat. I already stated I don't disagree with your sole viewpoint (I run and prefer it myself), but apparently you missed mine that there's another entirely valid use case that costs nothing extra to try first if it meets your needs.
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I use the shield and keep my htpc for files that are harder to play or running straight iso copies. I would love a full universal media player but these companies constantly go out of business. I have been thinking about biting the bullet and trying to hunt down a 205 oppo. When I downsize, my wife will never let me have a pc in the living or bedroom. It sure was a dream having my own theater ..sigh first world problems.
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I have a few questions about the right way to set up 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers with largeish fronts and center and the x4800h. I'm mostly listening to 2ch stereo music but it's also our main screen for movies.
I will run a decent RCA from the x4800h Sub 1 (I think it expects this to be left) and the second to sub2.
*Should I use a y splitter?
*Am I connecting to the F12 s line in or lfe in?
*Should I do standard or L/R subs in x4800h speaker setup?
*Do I set speakers to small and 80hz crossover before Audyssey or after or both? No matter what, audyssey sets my mains to Full w/no x-over.
I will run a decent RCA from the x4800h Sub 1 (I think it expects this to be left) and the second to sub2.
*Should I use a y splitter?
*Am I connecting to the F12 s line in or lfe in?
*Should I do standard or L/R subs in x4800h speaker setup?
*Do I set speakers to small and 80hz crossover before Audyssey or after or both? No matter what, audyssey sets my mains to Full w/no x-over.
The last one : your AVR 'sets' the speaker size and crossovers based on the 'low frequency rolloff' that Audyssey measures for the signal in your room -- the low frequency point where the signal level deviates from 'flat' at the first measurement position by -3dB. Note this may be lower than the actual frequency range of the speaker, because room boundary effects can exaggerate bass reponse...this is an artifact of speaker placement. So quite often, when the calibration process is finished, one will find it's set a lower crossover than 80Hz for some or all channels, and perhaps one or more channel is set to 'large'. If so, set all speakers to 'small', set the subwoofer content to 'LFE' (not 'LFE + Mains') and move the crossover up to 80 (or something appropriate to your speaker's actual frequency range). But don't move a crossover down if the AVR has (you think) set it too high, because Audyssey won't apply any correction on that channel below its determined rolloff setting. IF you think it's too high (based on the speaker's published specs/test results) try redoing the measurments, paying careful attention to mic placement (e.g. mic facing upward with its tip at ear level -- which should be the same as front channels tweeter level -- nothing like a chair back or wall blocking the signal around it, and for measurements 2 through 8 do not exceed a radius of 2 feet from the main listening/1st measurement position -- personally since it's usually just me listening, I reduce this limit to 1 foot)
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rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I assume you've done the first and most important step, that of finding the best locations for the subs?
You kind of lost me there krabby.
If you set sub content to LFE only and the mains crossover to small and 80hz, what happens to the below 80 bass, where did it go?
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Thank you for asking. Why wouldn't it be better to get the wiring right first? A dumb question no doubt.
Anyway I don't have great options which is why I'm going with a second subwoifee. It's a 10x16 room with many windows and doorways, a central area of the house. Fortunately I have one centered spot along one wall for a 6 foot sofa 10 feet from an 11 foot stretch of the opposite wall starting in the corner. With a 77-in TV and a credenza larger than that to support it, The tower and subs are pretty close in to each other in a row 10 ft from MLP.
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
No worries no dumb questions we all start out somewhere. The whole purpose of subs is to get good/excellent bass/sub bass response at your listening position(s). This can and will only happen at specific spots for the subs in room (some better than others). No amount of special wiring or crossover settings can change those good spots, it's all room mode physics. A good primer on subs (as well as a great real world demo of the importance of good and bad sub placement) here: https://grimanisystems.com/articles/ (start with pt. 1 of course)
There's usually always options for freeing up an optimal sub placement area. For instance, in my room I replaced the credenza with a wall mount to hold the TV up, opening up the entire front wall for subs if needed. Bonus is I can "zoom" the TV in and out for optimal viewing distance for different viewing formats
.
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Setting speakers to 'small ' simply by itself redirects their bass content (as determined by the set crossover) to the sub
LFE: bass of small speakers redirects to sub; bass of large speakers speakers not redirected, remains output from those speakers
LFE+Mains: bass of small speakers redirects to sub; bass of large speakers is output from those speakers *and also* from the sub.
here's from an old Denon manual (I bold for emphasis):
| LFE (Default): | The subwoofer outputs receive the LFE track, plus any redirected bass from speakers with crossovers set. Use this setting as the default for home theater bass management in a typical room. |
| LFE + Main: | The subwoofer outputs receive the LFE track, plus redirected bass, and a copy of the low frequency signals from all large speakers. |
What this means in practice that if ALL your speakers are all set to small, there is no difference...all the bass is redirected. But if you have any speakers set to LARGE, the bass of those is 'doubled' -- output from the large speakers AND sent to the sub. Which may or may not be good.
There's no law against experimenting. One could set various speakers to LARGE and see how they like using LFE vs LFE+mains. But the default (LFE) is generally recommended (as is setting all speakers to 'small').
Here's a thread discussing it.
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rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Just to add to @krabapple excellent explanation, I find a visual sometimes helps understanding the basics of bass management vs. LFE (think of them as two entirely different input channel paths, but the output of both going to a single output path (sub out)):
https://moraekhometheater.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/videophile-39-Dec-60-02.jpg
https://moraekhometheater.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/videophile-39-Dec-60-02.jpg
And NB there may or may not be some other effect when 'Direct' or 'Pure Direct' modes are used instead of standard AVR modes that have DSP in their paths.
('Direct' and 'Pure Direct' are not the same thing, either... oy these AVRs)
('Direct' and 'Pure Direct' are not the same thing, either... oy these AVRs
)
ban25
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Usually, Pure Direct just entails turning the front panel display off (and maybe a couple other circuits). Definitely nothing that can be heard as making a difference and probably not even measurable, either.And NB there may or may not be some other effect when 'Direct' or 'Pure Direct' modes are used instead of standard AVR modes that have DSP in their paths.
('Direct' and 'Pure Direct' are not the same thing, either... oy these AVRs
Seems about right
<rn:page_title/>
support.denon.com
Pure Direct takes Direct Mode to another level. This mode turns off the main unit display and analog video circuit. Doing so suppresses noise sources that affect sound quality.
Oh, I'm sure there is amazing increase in depth, imaging, soundstage, bloom, prat, warmth, farblondjet, and spouse approval when using 'Pure'. It takes things to another level!
Supposedly just allows for a one button release from any and all DRC and other digital processing and added hope for the
many here who have asked for such a feature. A straight thru path for their "pure" analog sources they believe important.
ban25
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That's what I use it for: an easy way to listen to my towers full-range without DRC when I want to (and I really appreciate that it's one button and assignable per input preset), but as for Pure Direct being "another level," well...
No audible or measurable change, just a marketing gimmick. Direct & Pure Direct.
(I should add that I believe Amir did measure a tiny difference in SINAD or something on one of the AVR's some time back, but I can't remember which one and it wasn't at any level that could considered be an audible difference? And I could just be confused on the report?)
Under "Pure" mode, Amir got 77dB SINAD from the Analog inputs for the RZ50 in his review. It drops to 70dB SINAD when not using "Pure". Were you talking about that?
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