• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 11 3.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 73 20.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 198 54.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 83 22.7%

  • Total voters
    365
No audible or measurable change, just a marketing gimmick. Direct & Pure Direct.
(I should add that I believe Amir did measure a tiny difference in SINAD or something on one of the AVR's some time back, but I can't remember which one and it wasn't at any level that could considered be an audible difference? And I could just be confused on the report?)
Under "Pure" mode, Amir got 77dB SINAD from the Analog inputs for the RZ50 in his review. It drops to 70dB SINAD when not using "Pure". Were you talking about that?

 
Pure direct is a necessary function of an AVR, as much as phono input ;)
 
With analog sources the signal doesn't get digitized in Pure Direct mode. In that case, base management is also not available. This is different compared to digital sources where bass management is still available in Pure Direct mode.

Analog Pure Direct measures differently compared to the regular Stereo mode. Whether one can hear the difference is another discussion to be had...
 
Under "Pure" mode, Amir got 77dB SINAD from the Analog inputs for the RZ50 in his review. It drops to 70dB SINAD when not using "Pure". Were you talking about that?
Could be, I honestly don't remember exactly which review.
Could have even been more than once?

With analog sources the signal doesn't get digitized in Pure Direct mode. In that case, base management is also not available.
That is often the same in simple Direct.
The only true difference being the displays are shut down.
That is why normally no change is reflected in the measurements.
 
With analog sources the signal doesn't get digitized in Pure Direct mode.

That already happens in plain "Direct' mode, I believe . In Denons at least.


In that case, base management is also not available. This is different compared to digital sources where bass management is still available in Pure Direct mode.

That seems very ....counterintuitive if true.

According to Denon, all Pure Direct does is turn off the front panel display, and the 'analog video circuit' , both of which, they claim, add some amount of noise. But that is on top of what Direct already turns off , which appears to be all DSP (digital processing)( including bass management? not sure)

Again, I'm speaking of Denons (and therefore probably Marantz too). Onkyo may have done things differently.
 
Last edited:
With analog sources the signal doesn't get digitized in Pure Direct mode. In that case, base management is also not available. This is different compared to digital sources where bass management is still available in Pure Direct mode.

Analog Pure Direct measures differently compared to the regular Stereo mode. Whether one can hear the difference is another discussion to be had...
Even in analog input and in direct mode, the crossovers set before after running auto setup, crossover can still remain in effect. How D+M do that I do not know, though I can guess, but that would be my own educated guess. The fact is, XO does work in direct mode, so there is a little bit of management there..
 
Even in analog input and in direct mode, the crossovers set before after running auto setup, crossover can still remain in effect. How D+M do that I do not know, though I can guess, but that would be my own educated guess. The fact is, XO does work in direct mode, so there is a little bit of management there..
You may be right that the XO stays in place... I would guess speaker level and distance calibrations would also remain, in that case..I haven't really tested this for years, so I don't know for sure.

Certainly, Audyssey correction is deactivated. Here's what another Denon manual says is OFF in Direct mode
In Direct sound mode, the following items cannot be adjusted.
Tone
Restorer
MultEQ®
Dynamic EQ
Dynamic Volume
Manual EQ
 
You may be right that the XO stays in place... I would guess speaker level and distance calibrations would also remain, in that case..I haven't really tested this for years, so I don't know for sure.

Certainly, Audyssey correction is deactivated. Here's what another Denon manual says is OFF in Direct mode
As you know, I only referred to crossover settings, not Audyssey, that is not available in direct mode, obviously.
 
I know. I was just trying to pin down/note what is definitely turned off in Direct. A lot of people conflate 'Audyssey' with speaker size/crossover/distance/output level settings
 
There's several charts in the user manual appendix that specify the supported functionality for all sound modes (including direct/pure direct modes). Should clear up a few things here.
 
Last edited:
There's several charts in the user manual appendix that specify the supported functionality for all sound modes (including direct/pure direct modes). Should clear up a few things here.
For surround sound modes, that is true, but for analog input, direct mode behavior (ref. post#2322), the Denon/Marantz too obviously, has been very confusing on this topic.

There is a thread right here on ASR, it took almost two pages for the OP to eventually figure out what seemed to be a self admitted user error (see post#13 for those interested), and that he thought explained why no matter what settings he used, the crossover settings seem to have no effects.


I don't recall if he took measurements for both Stereo and Direct mode to compare crossover effects, but it is clear Denon/Marantz manuals don't clear anything up for those who really want to know the small, large (aka "full"), stereo, direct modes differences in terms of the topic "bass management" that was mentioned by Zwepp triggered my initial response (that seemed premature, so I wish I hadn't responded..) and then @krabapple continued this discussion with me further.

As the linked thread above did not completely clear things up on the crossover effects in direct mode, I would like to try and see if I could find from my inventory (REW graphs) the sweeps I had done for different crossover settings when I had the Marantz AVP and the Denon AVR-X4400H that I no longer have. If I couldn't find them, or they were only done in Stereo mode, then I would have to do some new experiments on my AVR-X1800H that I used in my two channel setup, but that would be a pain as I would have to hook up a monitor in order to see all the settings.

Just for those curious enough, I had even written to D+M/Sound United a few years ago, about the seemingly functional bass management (again, limited to small/large/crossover only as I mentioned earlier); and their response was clear as mud though at least it confirmed my findings that the small/large/XO thing was indeed functional even in direct mode:

My question to their(Marantz) customer support:

First, my follow up question, after they confirm the ADC/DSP/DAC bypass route in direct mode:

"Thank you for your response. So if in direct/pure direct the signal bypasses the ADC/DAC and DSP, then how come even when direct or pure direct are selected, the speaker distance and crossover settings seem to remain in effect?"

and, their response: Staff Account NJ customer Suppport via Email:

"Looking at the end of the volume IC trace, I do see there's a Tone Control (crossover) which would explain the low frequency output to the sub in Direct Mode."

For clarify, I think the part that D+M has not been clear in their owner's manuals seem only apply to two channels, analog input, Stereo/Direct mode and in relation to the basic bass management. One of origin of the confusion might have been due to, as Gene mentioned years ago, in his review on the AVR-5805 in which he found that:

The AVR-5805 has completely independent bass management settings (ie. crossover, distance compensation, level, etc) for 2CH mode. Not since the days of the Aragon Soundstage have we seen this sort of flexibility, especially in a receiver!

Gene also repeated the following in his later review on the AVR-5308:

Keep in mind that Denon allows separate bass management settings for 2-channel direct mode, so be sure to set that up as well so you get the desired results.

I am not sure if Denon (and naturally also Marantz) has continued the same approach in their current AVRs, but I know my AV8801 and AVR-X4400H appeared to behave the same in Stereo/Direct mode, but again, time permitting I will do some experiments with my only current Denon model, the little X1800H, just to satisfy my own curiosity.
 
Yes, I stand corrected on my claim that an analog signal doesn't involve bass management in (pure) direct mode. I gave it a try on my newly acquired X4800H with an analog signal from my CD-player. The subwoofer still gets a signal and the display also shows the subwoofer is active. Unless there's some voodoo magic involved, the signal must be digitized in order to apply low and high-pass filters.

Yamaha clearly takes a different approach for their RX-A2/4/6/8A models as stated by Audioholics.com while measuring the A6A:

"The Signal to Noise Ratio was much better (+24dB) on the analog preamp in “Pure Direct” (106dB A-wt @ 2Vrms with 410mVrms input) than in “Straight Mode” (82dB A-wt @ 2Vrms with 410mVrms input). This is of no surprise since the DSP is engaged in “Straight” mode and the ADCs Yamaha uses are the culprit for the increased noise. I would use “Pure Direct” when feeding the RX-A6A analog input signals unless you absolutely want to engage bass management or you wish to upmix your 2CH music to German Bathtub DSP mode that Yamaha is so well known for".

Somewhere in my memory Denon did the same, but clearly I was wrong.
 
Well, that all sorts out some of my own confusion, at least: I haven't used Stereo mode, or analog inputs, for dog's years. ;>
 
Last edited:
Yes, I stand corrected on my claim that an analog signal doesn't involve bass management in (pure) direct mode. I gave it a try on my newly acquired X4800H with an analog signal from my CD-player. The subwoofer still gets a signal and the display also shows the subwoofer is active. Unless there's some voodoo magic involved, the signal must be digitized in order to apply low and high-pass filters.
According to the mode charts in the manual appendix (see post above yours), direct/pure direct 2-ch modes do not support pass filters nor LFE channel (no pass filters to me means no bass management). Also according to the manual, If you are seeing subwoofer output in one of these modes, it's due to "Subwoofer Output" set to "LFE+Main" (which is redirected/copied mains output not bass management).

My HT is down at the moment, so can't test and confirm whether the manual is correct or not, but my money is on it is.
 
Last edited:
According to the mode charts in the manual appendix (see post above yours), direct/pure direct 2-ch modes do not support pass filters nor LFE channel (no pass filters to me means no bass management). Also according to the manual, If you are seeing subwoofer output in one of these modes, it's due to "Subwoofer Output" set to "LFE+Main" (which is redirected/copied mains output not bass management).

My HT is down at the moment, so can't test and confirm whether the manual is correct or not, but my money is on it is.
Subwoofer output is set to LFE only in my case (so not LFE+Main) and the subwoofer is still playing along in (Pure) Direct mode. There is an extra menu for 2ch playback where the subwoofer output is also set to LFE only.
 
99.99% chance no, if you meant "sound quality" in direct or pure direct mode. with DSP functions in use, may be but it will be a subjective thing, mostly.
Thank you! And which one are the top 5 Denon AVR which are good for music?
 
Subwoofer output is set to LFE only in my case (so not LFE+Main) and the subwoofer is still playing along in (Pure) Direct mode. There is an extra menu for 2ch playback where the subwoofer output is also set to LFE only.
Weird. As soon I am able to get my HT back up and running, I will have to check this out.
 
rvsixer said:
There's several charts in the user manual appendix that specify the supported functionality for all sound modes (including direct/pure direct modes). Should clear up a few things here.
For surround sound modes, that is true...
There are both 2-ch and multi-channel modes listed for both direct and pure direct. I would expect both 2-ch and surround to operated as defined.

UPDATE: I just noticed the manual indicates both analog and PCM input default to the same stereo sound mode. So they should be processed/not-processed identically? Now I really want to test this all myself!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom