Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[9800pro]

Just got a new x4800h for 1350usd, pretty good so far.
It was an impulse buy because of the price, it replaces x2800h.
The sound difference is quite noticeable, even with cheaper speakers like Q acoustics Q3010i/3090ci I have.
It's also a lot faster, Heos starts playing a lot quicker than on x2800h.

 

[peng]

One more thing about using the Onkyo as a poweramp. The manual stated "Input Sensitivity and Impedance 200 mV/ 47 kΩ (LINE)".
Maybe that was the reason it wasn't working out using it as a poweramp.

Not really, the 200 mV is the sensitivity of the AVR, not the power amp of the AVR. The gain of such AVRs are typically between 28 and 29 dB, so it will take about 1 V to output 100 W into 8 ohms. Others have used AVRs such as your 906 as power amp, using the multichannel analog inputs. I don't know it wouldn't work for you, but it could be for any of many reasons, one being something went defective. It is hard to know without being there. There are things you can do to troubleshoot but it also depends on your knowledge/skill level, and availability of the right tools, such as a good multimeter.

I tried a lot of Audyssey target curves, probably around 25-30 different ones.
Trial and error got me very close to the Onkyo, but the way I see/hear it the Denon just doesn't have the iron grip like the Onkyo did resulting in slightly less tight/punchy bass.

The German magazine Audiovision tested the Denon AVC-X4800H in it's 02/24 issue and they seem to come to the same conclusion:

Such subjective reviews mean very little. If it says something you happen to agree, then you will of course believe that and it gets reinforced, but it does not make it true, different subjective reviews said different things, it happens all the time. For example, if you search hard enough, you may find users who thought your AVR has punchy and tight bass, while other may say the opposite. That's why it is good to have ASR, where people can focus more on the objective side of the equation.

Based on my own experience, and graphs (so both subjective and objectively speaking), Direct Live may help in tightening your bass, it did for me but as people say, ymmv.

Dirac Live Impulse Response View/Results

Hi, Long time lurker, first time poster. I am trying out Dirac Live on my mac mini (el capitan) and am wondering if someone - Flavio? - can explain what I am seeing in the attached Impulse Response view after running my measurements and optimizing. I get the basics of the impulse response graph -...

audiophilestyle.com

Dirac Live Bass Control

Dirac Live Bass Control. Automate subwoofer optimization for a strong, smooth, and refined bass response in all listening positions.

www.dirac.com

 

[Robert-Hifi]

Not really, the 200 mV is the sensitivity of the AVR, not the power amp of the AVR. The gain of such AVRs are typically between 28 and 29 dB, so it will take about 1 V to output 100 W into 8 ohms. Others have used AVRs such as your 906 as power amp, using the multichannel analog inputs. I don't know it wouldn't work for you, but it could be for any of many reasons, one being something went defective. It is hard to know without being there. There are things you can do to troubleshoot but it also depends on your knowledge/skill level, and availability of the right tools, such as a good multimeter.

Such subjective reviews mean very little. If it says something you happen to agree, then you will of course believe that and it gets reinforced, but it does not make it true, different subjective reviews said different things, it happens all the time. For example, if you search hard enough, you may find users who thought your AVR has punchy and tight bass, while other may say the opposite. That's why it is good to have ASR, where people can focus more on the objective side of the equation.

Based on my own experience, and graphs (so both subjective and objectively speaking), Direct Live may help in tightening your bass, it did for me but as people say, ymmv.

Dirac Live Impulse Response View/Results

Hi, Long time lurker, first time poster. I am trying out Dirac Live on my mac mini (el capitan) and am wondering if someone - Flavio? - can explain what I am seeing in the attached Impulse Response view after running my measurements and optimizing. I get the basics of the impulse response graph -...

audiophilestyle.com

Dirac Live Bass Control

Dirac Live Bass Control. Automate subwoofer optimization for a strong, smooth, and refined bass response in all listening positions.

www.dirac.com

Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter, but I should have at least checked if the Onkyo was not defective when using it stand-alone as an AVR (as I used it before).
But cables were short and it would be a lot of hassle to connect it to some audio source with optical output.

The audiovision review came out long after my own experience with the Denon.
It's not that I started to believe it after reading the review.

And yes, ASR is very helpful to stay objective, but some things can't be measured, right?
I don't know how you could measure the tightness of the bass or the spaciousness of an AVR.

 

[9800pro]

Where did you find it for $1350? Thanks!

I got it through my company, with 25% partner rebate from local Denon distributor and without VAT. Normal price is 2253USD with VAT. That is why it was a impulse buy, gotta have it

 

[peng]

The audiovision review came out long after my own experience with the Denon.
It's not that I started to believe it after reading the review.

That's not what I implied. My point is, people say different things and it is sort of human nature to prefer comments that reinforced what one thinks, believe, inclined to believe etc., which one first is not relevant.

And yes, ASR is very helpful to stay objective, but some things can't be measured, right?
I don't know how you could measure the tightness of the bass or the spaciousness of an AVR.

They can be measured, but not always measured.

As far measuring tightness go, I don't really know but if you can quantify the term, then you can probably measure it, such as using REW/mic, and/or display it on a scope/analyzer and other means. I think the challenge is more about how to measure what one actually perceives. Even those single tone hearing tests done by audiologists, technicians would have to use some intelligent algorithms for such tests to be accurate enough. Subjective measurements are tough to quantify, if at all possible lol. Also, speakers tend to contribute more, in terms of tightness of bass, than amps, just ask bass specialist such as SVS...

You probably should stick with Onkyo.

 

[rynberg]

On a measurement oriented site like this one... sure.

But on a facebook group, where someone purchased an NR7100, and now fears that it won't be useable.... it is all about them being happy with their purchase. Raising theoretical issues is just petty in that case.

I don't even know what to say to this utter and complete nonsense. So ignorance is bliss? This attitude is exactly why a terrifyingly large portion of our population believes in conspiracy theories and other such ridiculousness.

It's not a theoretical issue, the power available is cut in half. Facts don't matter anymore I guess.

 

[popej]

It's not a theoretical issue, the power available is cut in half. Facts don't matter anymore I guess

I'm not sure, if Onkyo works like Denon. Any link to measurements?

 

[2therock]

Almost a week with the 4800 and zero complaints or regrets, everything just works and have not ran room correction.
I will run the Audyssey with the included mic and did download the app but want to ask if I should want to try Dirac with my 7.1 speaker layout what is the minimum package I can run.

 

[dlaloum]

Almost a week with the 4800 and zero complaints or regrets, everything just works and have not ran room correction.
I will run the Audyssey with the included mic and did download the app but want to ask if I should want to try Dirac with my 7.1 speaker layout what is the minimum package I can run.

Minimum Dirac package would be 2.0... so no real limit for you!

(in terms of Dirac capabilities )

 

[2therock]

Another AC Infinity Aircom T10 Cooler on X4800H Report.....
Still X4800H happy, VERY!
Picked up an AC Infinity Aircom T10 cooler. Using an infrared temp gun with all day casual mixed use it would read 105-107°F at the hottest point on the cover.
With the cooler on Auto, fan speed at 3, set to come on at 90°F using the 2 degree window it hangs out at 89°F fans off most of the time.
I can't believe how it will seem to be cooler sitting on the AVR with the fans off @ 89°F than with nothing on top of it.
I tried the 4 degree window and way more fluctuation and fan on time. I think keeping it from 87°F to 90°F is not bad with minimal fan time. Sometimes it will pop to 91°F momentarily.

 

[pogo]

It's time for Denon to switch to Class-D too. DLART won't do any better...

 

[dlaloum]

It's time for Denon to switch to Class-D too. DLART won't do any better...

I'm running ClassD on my mains, but a good ClassAB does just as well... I don't think there is a large difference between them, my vintage Quad 606 idles at a lower consumption level than my much much newer Crown ClassD amp... not by much, but measurably lower.
And in sound quality terms, many users on here are using the ClassAB Benchmark power amp... which provides state of the art performance!

Honestly I think that the major benefit would be a move from traditional transformer based power supplies to fully regulated switch mode power supplies - with resulting lower weight and size of the equipment, and the potential for higher current output (great for low impedance speakers)....

 

[dave999z]

with resulting lower weight and size of the equipment

Indeed the size (in particular the depth) of many AVRs has become absurd.

 

[dlaloum]

Indeed the size (in particular the depth) of many AVRs has become absurd.

It has been a problem for me with fitting them into my furniture!

 

[hardcore_gamer99]

Is there any much difference between the x3800h and x4800h in actual? though x4800h is made in japan. If i want 5.2.2 setup minimum with sony oled tv apple tv 4k device. Will x4800h drive power hungry tower speakers like from wharedale/dali etc or it will be same as x3800 would drive?

 

[EWL5]

Is there any much difference between the x3800h and x4800h in actual? though x4800h is made in japan. If i want 5.2.2 setup minimum with sony oled tv apple tv 4k device. Will x4800h drive power hungry tower speakers like from wharedale/dali etc or it will be same as x3800 would drive?

According to Amir's measurements (found on the first post of the 3800 and 4800 review threads):

4800 max power was 134W into 8 ohm, 2-channels driven (125W per the box)
3800 max power was 114W into 8 ohm, 2-channels driven (105W per the box)

They both clearly punch above their advertised spec but even more telling is the following:

4800 max power was 175W into 4 ohm, 2-channels driven
3800 max power was 168W into 4 ohm, 2-channels driven

As many of us own speakers that are nominally 4 ohm or dip into that range often, is the above enough to justify a $800 MSRP difference (street price differential might be worse as the 3800 can be found much cheaper whereas the 4800 is rarely discounted)?!!! Yes, there is a SINAD difference but as some of us believe, in this segment you won't hear the difference! If you ever want to take a dive into the Dirac line of products, both the 3800 and 4800 support the same level of Dirac capability.

Oh and don't get me started on "Made in Japan"...

 

[peng]

Oh and don't get me started on "Made in Japan"...

Okay, then don't, but I'll do it for you, just to say that one of the best measured/rated preamp/processor, the Anthem AVM90 is made in Vietnam. That's a wise move for Anthem as that obviously allowed them to be a little more competitive with Marantz, that made the AV10 in Japan. Marantz, being Masimo, could afford higher labor cost because they have the economy of scale on their side.

 

[peng]

Use of Dirac Live, or Audyssey could result in relatively easier to hear improvements, than a few dB higher SINAD could do. When the X3800H is on sale, it would be one very nice high value AVR to beat.

 

[EWL5]

Use of Dirac Live, or Audyssey could result in relatively easy to hear improvements, than a few dB higher SINAD could do. When the X3800H is on sale, it would be one very nice high value AVR to beat.

You aren't kidding! When I initially got my 3800, I was unhappy w/how Audyssey set everything up and it only got partially better when I bought the $20 app. I had come from a string of successive Pioneer Elite AVRs and was used to MCACC. After paying for DL and setting it up properly, I can say that all my prior misgivings of "downgrading" from a Pioneer Elite LX701 to a Denon 3800 evaporated! I'm 99% confident you won't hear any difference b/w the 3800 and 4800 once everything is dialed in!

 

[dave999z]

You aren't kidding! When I initially got my 3800, I was unhappy w/how Audyssey set everything up and it only got partially better when I bought the $20 app. I had come from a string of successive Pioneer Elite AVRs and was used to MCACC. After paying for DL and setting it up properly, I can say that all my prior misgivings of "downgrading" from a Pioneer Elite LX701 to a Denon 3800 evaporated! I'm 99% confident you won't hear any difference b/w the 3800 and 4800 once everything is dialed in!

The $800 for a multi sub Dirac license is painful though. Does anyone know, if you purchase the license for, say, a 3800, and then you buy a 6800, can you transfer (reassign) the Dirac license to the new receiver?