• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 10 3.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 72 22.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 177 54.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 68 20.8%

  • Total voters
    327

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,149
Likes
2,411
I know that it doesn't affect the other ports? not the topic.

have problems to believe that shit decision of integrating a 100mbit card. and for some things you could do with the device that's by far to slow. Lucky me I'm using specific devices for that. you could sometime check your 20 channels pcm theory but thats completely wrong imho. the 10mbit effective is not even enough for a good tidal mqa quality, which could be streamed via internal heos I guess?
or maybe not I've learned about so many heos restrictions in the meantime... who know..
100mb is heaps for audio and easily supports 20 channels...

Perhaps you are thinking in Internet link terms - where the issue is likely to be latency rather than bandwidth...

In a local area network environment, latency won't be an issue unless something is broken.

Here are some Dante details for audio over IP:

Key bit is this:
So that you know what to expect, here is the kind of network traffic you will be seeing on your network with Dante devices:
  • Dante uses UDP for audio distribution, both unicast and multicast.
    • Bandwidth usage is about 6 Mbps per typical unicast audio flow (containing 4 channels and 16 audio samples per channel). Flows are pre-allocated a capacity of 4 channels. The samples-per-channel can vary between 4 and 64, depending on the latency setting of the device. For multicast flows, channels-per-flow can be varied from 1 to 8 channels per flow.

Keep in mind that as you ramp up the bandwidth and get close to the limit of the standard you are using (eg: for 100m ethernet, more than 80% utilisation) - then issues such as QoS, traffic signalling overheads, etc... can become factors, and these may impact on latency .... and latency is more likely to be an issue than bandwidth.

But given 6mb can transport 4 channels, 24mb can transport 16 channels.... you would have to be pushing the limits pretty hard to have issues with a 100mbps link.

Yeah they could have spent the extra 10c ona Gb chip... but there really was no need to.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,149
Likes
2,411
Can you explain which of the multiple statements in the referenced post is "wrong"?

I am also unaware of any TV currently produced that includes gig Ethernet.

And since they obviously work with all the current streaming solutions, it's clear the 10 / 100 ports ARE sufficient for current streaming demands.
Most people do not have an internet link capable of 100mbps...

Streaming works fine on links down below 10mbps... it is latency sensitive rather than bandwidth sensitive. (talking about audio - video requires more... but still not 100mbps)
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,149
Likes
2,411
I have never understand that desire for power. Well, I listen at about 55-60dB SPL and use like 0.01W per channel.
Typically the real need is not "pure" power, but stability and the ability to handle difficult loads (EPDR...) without having audible issues... A lot of amps misbehave into difficult loads.

Many old world tube amps are quite capable of handling very difficult speakers, even though their power output is tiny....
Quite a few current "powerhouse" amps (at least according to their dubious spec sheets) - end up sound terrible into difficult speakers - even though they in theory have heaps of power.

You need to consider the amp and speaker as a single "component" - they are highly dependent on each other!
 

Robert-Hifi

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
43
Likes
16
This value is the result of a recent test of the X6800H at 4 ohms, which means that not much control is to be expected here and this could also mean a poorer result for the co-optimization (DLART).
Ah, yes. That was from the German magazine Stereo. I assume the X4800H would measure similarly regarding the damping factor.
But is a damping factor of 18 really too low to be the issue?
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,717
Likes
5,290
Ah, yes. That was from the German magazine Stereo. I assume the X4800H would measure similarly regarding the damping factor.
But is a damping factor of 18 really too low to be the issue?
No, it is low but not for 4 ohm load it isn't all that low. Adding a Hypex amp may help, Dirac Live should help more.
 

Miker 1102

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
235
Likes
129
It definitely sounds generational since "hearing protection" wasn't very prevalent or enforced for Boomers and older.

Is there a common high frequency cutoff for folks w/Tinnitus?
Alot of us grew up going to metal ans hard Rock. I never wore ear protection. I didn't think about it. I still listen at very high db level. My kids never wanted to be in the car with me. It's funny. I am 35 years older than my youngest and I can't even play hard rock in the car with him.
 

pogo

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Messages
1,300
Likes
422
But is a damping factor of 18 really too low to be the issue?
My speakers don't work well on a low DF in my room, so the back EMF is an issue here and it stimulates my room modes more.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,717
Likes
5,290
Reading an opining on Denon Sub woofer performance lacking punch makes me ponder speaker quality. I cannot fathom a brand like Denon dropping the ball there.
Agreed, there are lots of overrated, even myths, perpetuated by hearsay over the years and now helped by the internet. One can google for damping factor and try to understand it's effect on "damping", but in my opinion, articles written by well know loudspeaker (or even amplifier) designers/engineers who include calculations for all to see has credibility whereas those who just throw out some terminologies don't have.

Talking about damping factor will certainly help those easily affected/biased by preconceived ideas and potentially prone (probably all humans are, to some extent) to hearing differences that would likely not heard if such bias are removed (such as in blind listening tests).

Here's one of those articles, linked in our own ASR thread:


Benchmark has one too, also linked in the same thread, that one presented a more stringent approach and therefore recommend a higher DF, but its is more to achieve tighter frequency response such as +/- 0.1 dB, but it also consider for "woofer damping purposes". You can just read their conclusions:

Conclusions

Loudspeaker driver damping can be achieved with damping factors as low as 10. Raising the damping factor above 10, has almost no impact on driver damping. This has been shown by Dick Pierce and others.

A damping factor of 10 can produce amplitude response variations exceeding 2 dB. These variations should be sufficient to create audible changes in the apparent voicing of a loudspeaker.

There is also a 6 page ASR thread on the same topic:

 

pogo

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Messages
1,300
Likes
422
This has been shown by Dick Pierce and others.
This topic is not trivial and good information can be found here, but it certainly does not cover everything:

'High Performance Audio Power Amplifiers' by Ben Duncan
7.4.3 Damping factor & 2.3.2 What speakers are looking for
 

popej

Active Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
278
Likes
185
Typically the real need is not "pure" power, but stability and the ability to handle difficult loads (EPDR...) without having audible issues... A lot of amps misbehave into difficult loads.
IMHO this kind of theorizing is useless without providing any estimation of the actual audibility of the problem. Kind of like considering how many N copper wire should have.

I know only one real tests. It was done by Arny Krueger on his PCABX site:

Would be interesting if anyone could provide results of similar ABX testing.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,717
Likes
5,290
Typically the real need is not "pure" power, but stability and the ability to handle difficult loads (EPDR...) without having audible issues... A lot of amps misbehave into difficult loads.

Many old world tube amps are quite capable of handling very difficult speakers, even though their power output is tiny....
Quite a few current "powerhouse" amps (at least according to their dubious spec sheets) - end up sound terrible into difficult speakers - even though they in theory have heaps of power.

You need to consider the amp and speaker as a single "component" - they are highly dependent on each other!

True, but that doesn't apply to someone like popej who apparently only needs 0.01 W average, 1 to 10 W peak.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,149
Likes
2,411
IMHO this kind of theorizing is useless without providing any estimation of the actual audibility of the problem. Kind of like considering how many N copper wire should have.

I know only one real tests. It was done by Arny Krueger on his PCABX site:

Would be interesting if anyone could provide results of similar ABX testing.
My testing was purely subjective (as I do not have the requisite tools) - but there was a noticeable difference between the Onkyo SR876 / Integra DTR 70.4 / Crown XLS2500 / Quad 606 (which all sounded the same, or sufficiently close that I doubt I could differentiate between them in a blind test) - and the Integra DTR 3.4.

All the amps in the former category, are high power and high current designs - the last one (odd man out) - has reasonable "power" according to its spec sheet.... but (and here I am guessing) appears to be unable to handle the speakers properly. It also has a much smaller power supply, and my guess is that current may be the issue into the 3 ohm woofer crossover and 1.6ohm tweeter my speakers have... or alternatively the amp topology may have issues with the capacitive load of the tweeter...
 

Robert-Hifi

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
43
Likes
16
My experiment to use my old Onkyo TX-NR0906 as a poweramp for the Denon AVC-X4800H has failed.
I wanted to see if it would bring back the muscular low-end from the Onkyo, but I couldn't get it to output sound.
Only connected the front L/R to the Onkyo and assigned the multichannel input to the proper input (DVD) and switched the audio selector to multichannel input for the DVD input, also tried it for the Game/TV input.
On the Denon I set the front L/R to pre-out only, but got no sound whatsoever.
Tried to switch to the surround L/R as pre-out on the Denon, but that resulted in volume fluctuations in the center channel (probably due to the two volume controle fighting each other).

So, I disconnected the Onkyo and put it in storage again.
I hope it didn't damage the Denon in any way.
 
Last edited:

Joost80

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2023
Messages
29
Likes
27
My experiment to use my old Onkyo TX-NR0906 as a poweramp for the Denon AVC-X4800H has failed.
I wanted to see if it would bring back the muscular low-end from the Onkyo, but I couldn't get it to output sound.
Only connected the front L/R to the Onkyo and assigned the multichannel input to the proper input (DVD) and switched the audio selector to multichannel input for the DVD input, also tried it for the Game/TV input.
On the Denon I set the front L/R to pre-out only, but got no sound whatsoever.
Tried to switch to the surround L/R as pre-out on the Denon, but that resulted in volume fluctuations in the center channel (probably due to the two volume controle fighting each other).

So, I disconnected the Onkyo and put it in storage again.
I hope it didn't damage the Denon in any way.
Maybe it sounds 'less muscular' because its better integrated in the sound field? My favorite test scene when I show people the setup is Ready Player One opening race scene. I have a PC12 Plus and if the bass would be more muscular, cracks will appear in the concrete. I have owned the NR906 as well years back. Great machine.
 

Robert-Hifi

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
43
Likes
16
Maybe it sounds 'less muscular' because its better integrated in the sound field? My favorite test scene when I show people the setup is Ready Player One opening race scene. I have a PC12 Plus and if the bass would be more muscular, cracks will appear in the concrete. I have owned the NR906 as well years back. Great machine.
With movies it's different, because the subwoofer takes the strain off of the other speakers and the AVR when it comes to bass.
For music I prefer to listen without subwoofer and with the fronts full-range.
Reason for that is my subwoofer is not articulate enough to keep up with my speakers.
 

2therock

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2023
Messages
17
Likes
6
Mercy its rough for an AVR buyer if he reads retailer less than positive, word of mouth reviews. I'm thinking about getting a refurbished AVR-X4800H through Denon vs AFL as I believe service after the sale will be better. AFL offers lower price w/3yr Warranty, Denon 200 higher w/1yr & 60 day return? I want to believe sticking with Denon would be the best route.
Anyone reading here using a refurb in this unit? This review, budget, and much less Webb hits on HDMI issues in the Denon brand has me in this direction. Thanks
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,717
Likes
5,290
I wanted to see if it would bring back the muscular low-end from the Onkyo, but I couldn't get it to output sound.
Only connected the front L/R to the Onkyo and assigned the multichannel input to the proper input (DVD) and switched the audio selector to multichannel input for the DVD input, also tried it for the Game/TV input.
On the Denon I set the front L/R to pre-out only, but got no sound whatsoever.
Tried to switch to the surround L/R as pre-out on the Denon, but that resulted in volume fluctuations in the center channel (probably due to the two volume controle fighting each other).

So, I disconnected the Onkyo and put it in storage again.
I hope it didn't damage the Denon in any way.
If the 906 is in working order, it should work. Did you double check to see if the 906 was on mute, or the volume set to 0, or too low? It should easy enough to check that the 906 is working normally too. That's a pity because the 906 has fantastic power amp output, for an AVR.
 

Robert-Hifi

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
43
Likes
16
If the 906 is in working order, it should work. Did you double check to see if the 906 was on mute, or the volume set to 0, or too low? It should easy enough to check that the 906 is working normally too. That's a pity because the 906 has fantastic power amp output, for an AVR.
Yes, it was working just fine when I put it in storage 5 months ago with the exception of the HDMI board.
Only weird thing that I encountered was the power button on the front engaged the Pure Audio mode.
It wasn't on mute and I changed the volume between -55.0dB and -30.0dB, no sound with my ears an inch from the speakers.
And the relays were clicking as they should.

Now I'm in doubt whether to go for a Hypex Ncore stereo amp like this one:

Or go the route of a new better subwoofer like the Arendal 1723 Subwoofer 1S.
If it's the sound signature of the Denon both options wouldn't yield any results.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,149
Likes
2,411
Yes, it was working just fine when I put it in storage 5 months ago with the exception of the HDMI board.
Only weird thing that I encountered was the power button on the front engaged the Pure Audio mode.
It wasn't on mute and I changed the volume between -55.0dB and -30.0dB, no sound with my ears an inch from the speakers.
And the relays were clicking as they should.

Now I'm in doubt whether to go for a Hypex Ncore stereo amp like this one:

Or go the route of a new better subwoofer like the Arendal 1723 Subwoofer 1S.
If it's the sound signature of the Denon both options wouldn't yield any results.
My old SR876 (baby brother to the NR906) - also had the failed HDMI board - but the SPDIF input and analogue inputs continued working fine, and I used it for years that way, before finally reselling it after ordering a current generation Integra DRX3.4 (which I use with outboard power amps, that were not necessary with the 876...)

So yeah, if you can get it working right, the 906 is a great amp. (but not particularly energy efficient... it will idle hot...)
 

Robert-Hifi

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2023
Messages
43
Likes
16
My old SR876 (baby brother to the NR906) - also had the failed HDMI board - but the SPDIF input and analogue inputs continued working fine, and I used it for years that way, before finally reselling it after ordering a current generation Integra DRX3.4 (which I use with outboard power amps, that were not necessary with the 876...)

So yeah, if you can get it working right, the 906 is a great amp. (but not particularly energy efficient... it will idle hot...)
I'm surprised that it lasted 15 years before the HDMI board failure, because you could use it as a space heater.
Just would like the bass with the Denon to be tighter and punchier, but which solution could offer that?
 
Top Bottom