And don't forget; you will not be able to switch from DIRAC to Audyssey controlled output (for A - B comparison) if you only use one of them. If you take time and do a proper run with Audyssey most likely you will be very happy.
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Denon AVR-X3800H Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
For anyone still interested in this, or Denon's in general, denon.com has a sale currently. 20% off refurbished prices with code DENON20. So, the refurb 3800h comes down to just over $1k. Use BeFrugal cashback for an additional 15% off. So it's now $850.
I currently have a 3600h, purchased due to the high recommendation from here. I do have some components that would benefit from HDMI2.1. Just a bit torn on this option at this price!
I read the 3700h (newer ones) are not the same as the one tested here initially. Is that correct?
I currently have a 3600h, purchased due to the high recommendation from here. I do have some components that would benefit from HDMI2.1. Just a bit torn on this option at this price!
I read the 3700h (newer ones) are not the same as the one tested here initially. Is that correct?
That is correct. The early release version of the X3700H were constructed with AKM DAC's which tested with a better SINAD. The AKM DAC's were changed to TI DAC's by Denon when availability for AKM DAC's were lost due to a Factory Fire at the AKM Manufacturing Facility that caused a shutdown of production in October, 2020. TI DAC performance for SINAD is less, but some would argue that the difference is not audible, while others will maintain there is a performant difference in audibility. The current model X3800H is fitted with the TI DAC's, as well as the X4800H.
Hi all,
Just had a question about using a seperate amp to power my fronts with the X3800H powering all the other channels.
Looking at getting a Naim NAP 250 amp and using it to power my front L + R. However, wanted to clarify if I also needed the Naim pre-amp i.e. NAC unit in the mix/circuit to be able to do this? Or is just using the NAP 250 connected to the pre-outs on the Denon sufficient?
Thanks
Just had a question about using a seperate amp to power my fronts with the X3800H powering all the other channels.
Looking at getting a Naim NAP 250 amp and using it to power my front L + R. However, wanted to clarify if I also needed the Naim pre-amp i.e. NAC unit in the mix/circuit to be able to do this? Or is just using the NAP 250 connected to the pre-outs on the Denon sufficient?
Thanks
That amp is rated just 100 W 8 ohm. According to the specs, it has 29 dB gain so the Denon's pre out is more than enough, it should be able to drive the Naim amp to well pass it's clipping point.
From Naim spec sheet:
I have three Genelecs wired up to the X3800H as LCR and while doing the Audyssey calibration the X3800H reports a phase error, which i blissfully ignored to finish the calibration. Now i'm pretty sure that the Genelec wiring is correct but i wonder why there would be a phase error reported?
The first SINAD/THD+n of 87/86dB, done at 44100... could it be inferred from the image below that if the test were done at 192000 like multitone, that the number would be closer to 100dB?
May be pretty useless for most cases, but if so, those who use PCs as source could benefit from doing HQ upsampling before HDMI output. Would restore some content at least to 3800/3700v2 to 3700v1's glory.
(Maybe not the most useful in Pure Direct mode, but if doing processing with Audessy etc (often with large boosts/cuts stealing 10dB), the added SNR/reduced distortion could become quite audible, especially with a lot of stuff being below -40 to start...
May be pretty useless for most cases, but if so, those who use PCs as source could benefit from doing HQ upsampling before HDMI output. Would restore some content at least to 3800/3700v2 to 3700v1's glory.
(Maybe not the most useful in Pure Direct mode, but if doing processing with Audessy etc (often with large boosts/cuts stealing 10dB), the added SNR/reduced distortion could become quite audible, especially with a lot of stuff being below -40 to start...
Attachments
I've had both. Subjectively 3700 v1 had a brighter top end and seemed more detailed with music. Unfortunately it was also more fatiguing. I kept v2 as I liked the way it did dialogue better, and I send music in analogue from RME or Topping G5
I recently got my interface set up to do measurements, possibly in a few weeks I'll have them done
Since I don't still have both versions (obv), the comparison with the measurements here won't be perfect.
I have an SC-LX701 and Emotiva XPA2 combo where the L/R are going to the Emotiva amp and C/SL/SR/top left and top right are handled by the Pioneer (5.1.2).
HDMI has been super flaky, especially Dolby Vision and/or general 4k content. Can't say if it was like this since day one but certainly has become intolerable lately.
I've identified the Denon 3800 as meeting my needs to replace the Pioneer. I understand full bandwith DL will be an additional $349 and DLBC will be another $349. This just about makes it the same price as the RZ70. I don't know if I can benefit from DLBC since I only have one subwoofer so I might be able to save $349. Since I have L/R going to the Emotiva, I don't feel I can benefit from the Denon 4800 and certainly it would be too costly once the Dirac stuff is included. I considered the RZ50 for a split second but the power limiting from the 505 and similar observations from Amir's review of the RZ50 have given me pause.
Do you guys think this might be the right move for me?
HDMI has been super flaky, especially Dolby Vision and/or general 4k content. Can't say if it was like this since day one but certainly has become intolerable lately.
I've identified the Denon 3800 as meeting my needs to replace the Pioneer. I understand full bandwith DL will be an additional $349 and DLBC will be another $349. This just about makes it the same price as the RZ70. I don't know if I can benefit from DLBC since I only have one subwoofer so I might be able to save $349. Since I have L/R going to the Emotiva, I don't feel I can benefit from the Denon 4800 and certainly it would be too costly once the Dirac stuff is included. I considered the RZ50 for a split second but the power limiting from the 505 and similar observations from Amir's review of the RZ50 have given me pause.
Do you guys think this might be the right move for me?
Things to think about:
- An RZ70 (or 8.4 or LX805) would probably make your Emotiva redundant - plenty of power/current
- The X4800/X3800 and RZ50/NR7100 are all current constrained - there are differences between them, but none of these will provide the power and current that your Emotiva currently does.
- As pre-amps all of these are within the same performance zone... (when properly set up and level matched you probably would be unable to differentiate between them blind)
- Any of these should be able to replace the LX701 in your setup without any fuss (while keeping the Emotiva, or for the RZ70, possibly retiring the Emotiva)
- If you want to go down the DLBC route - then the RZ70 provides an immediate option (it is available now) - and the Denon's will have that option in about a years time (I think Masimo was talking about March 2024?)
- If what you want is Dirac - and you aren't fussed about DLBC (or you are OK with potentially trading in an AVR for a DLBC upgrade next year...) - then the RZ50 is fantastic value - an alternative option given the number of channels you are running - would be the Integra DRX 3.4 - prices vary regionally.... in some places the RZ50 is cheaper (!) - but where I am (Australia) there was a substantial saving in stepping down to the 3.4 - which is the same as the NR7100, but with full pre-outs - the 3.4 will give you all the same features as the RZ50, minus one channel... and with a bit less power, which won't be an issue as you have the Emotiva in place. (I run a 3.4, with a Crown XLS amp driving L/R, and the 3.4 running the rest of my 5.1.4 setup)
- Audyssey - it's a bit more fiddly/messy to get right, but with the smartphone app and some messing about, reports are very positive - and the X3800 with Audysey is a competitive solution - if you are tempted to spend the extra $200 for the Multeq-X app, then possibly a Dirac based solution would be better value.
The Denon's were on my short list - but I ended up opting for Dirac and Onkyo/Integra as my better value immediate option, in the knowledge the within 3 years I will probably be trading my Integra for something capable of Dirac ART.... I'm planning on skipping the DLBC generation...
I moved from an older version of Audyssey XT32 to Dirac Live - and the result was an immediate noticeable improvement in performance... (and yes, that generation did not have the option of the apps to tune it, and MRC was not able to be turned off, and the improvement was most likely due to MRC...)
It's a difficult decision... with a lot of variables... but these are the AVR's that were/are on my short list too.
Appreciate your thoughts! I am planning to keep the XPA2 in the loop to get maximum power (it may be 13 years old, but they really don't make them like they used to)! None of the AVRs in my budget currently have XLR to the XPA2 so I will continue to use an RCA to XLR cable. The RZ70 is on backorder until September in the States and the only retailer that's carrying it appears to be Crutchfield. I think I still have to pay to upgrade to DLBC even on the RZ70!
The RZ50 would have been the cheapest option for me but I guess the limits called out by Amir definitely scared me off. I do like to push my home theater every so often and the AVR going into a "protection mode" unbeknownst to the owner is not appealing. This may not really play out in normal usage but the fact that the manufacturer would do that reminds me of the emissions debacle w/Volkswagen (I had a 2015 Audi A6 3.0 at one point).
Yes - the RZ70 still has the DLBC upgrade to be paid for... (check availability and pricing for the LX805 and 8.4 in your area? - personally I prefer the look of the Integra's but that is completely a matter of taste)
I have 4ohm nominal surrounds and heights - and 4ohm (dropping to 1.6ohm) L/C/R - and running L/R on the Crown XLS, but everything else (including the center 1.6ohm ) on the Integra DRX 3.4 works fine.
Running everything on the AVR, didn't trigger the protection as per Amir's tests, but it didn't sound good either - it sounded congested, soundstage collapsed and voices were lacking clarity - taking L/R off the AVR and putting those on the Crown amp, resolved the issue completely.
If that was the case for "baby brother" Integra 3.4, then the RZ50 would not have an issue with your setup (IMO...)
What you've described is just about what Amir described in his review. The Onkyo/Integra doesn't shut itself off like the traditional protection mode, it just creates a new plateau in power so that it never reaches that point. In other words, the receiver continues to play on, even at diminished quality! This is what I'm hoping to avoid no matter what, even if I'm offloading L/R workload to the Emotiva.
In the States, Onkyo is considered the mass-market brand and current street price is about $200 less than the premium brand Integra variant. Integra can only be found in boutique install shops and specific retailers like Crutchfield.
When the Onkyo/Integra's go into protection mode - this is visible in the status screen on the web interface...
I did check that when I tested/auditioned it in my system - and it never went into protection mode (once it goes into that mode, you have to do a full reset to get it out of that mode!)
So no - what I experienced was something different - it wasn't the result of protection mode - but it was definitely an indicator that the AVR is unhappy driving 4ohm nominal speakers with dips dropping to 1.6ohm
I have a 3-channel Martin Logan SLM X3 underneath the TV that is 4 ohm nominal. My Emotiva is driving just the L/R channels and the Pioneer has center channel duty. My XPA2 (Gen 2) is rated for 205W/channel (both channels driven) to a 4 ohm load. The rest of my speakers are 4 surround ceiling speakers (specs and brand unknown since it came w/the house).
What a mess in amps. Just use the denons amps as I bet you won't be able to tell the difference.
