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Deciphering Ascendo CCRM10P CEA2034 Measurements
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
With 1/6 smoothing, it is difficult to say. There is at least a directivity error at 5KHz, where significant narrowing (beaming) begins. When directivity is good, sound power closely follows predicted in-room response, and you can see a discrepancy at 5.5KHz due to that directivity error, followed by rapid fall-off of the highs as the tweeter starts to beam.
Overall, probably not terrible, but could be better.
Overall, probably not terrible, but could be better.
I would say no, it doesn't measure well. You have that great flat response up to 4000Hz, but then the nature of low quality coaxial setups kicks in, creating uneven response with rapidly narrowing directivity.
Personally I would rather see a horn loaded compression driver above the woofer, compromising vertical directivity in exchange for a smoother overall response. However, these are obviously intended for cinema use, rather than critical 2 channel listening, so the design isn't really an issue.
Personally I would rather see a horn loaded compression driver above the woofer, compromising vertical directivity in exchange for a smoother overall response. However, these are obviously intended for cinema use, rather than critical 2 channel listening, so the design isn't really an issue.
I didn't know that Ascendo started posting CEA-2034 data (using Klippel NFS...looks like subbed to 3rd party for measurements) on their website last October. Thanks for the heads up.
Here's the speakers that I found so far:
Here's the speakers that I found so far:
They purchased their own after seeing my measurements of their speaker.
Seems like one of those HT speaker types that is optimized for sensitivity but not to have good directivity or response. Unless you have a truly gigantic room(8m+ listening distance?), it's hard to imagine a reason for buying these over Kef R7s or R11s. Assuming you want coaxials. If coaxial isn't a requirement, well, there's lots of other choices too. Not 100% sure what the actual price of these are but they seemed to be somewhere around the R7?
Kennyknetter
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Well, it clearly has some issues with both diffraction and beaming above 5k. It could absolutely be made to sound well in one spot, but with such an uneven off axis response it's not gonna be easy to make it sound good above 5k in any other spot.
Now, if you factor in psychoacoustic smoothing, does the problem above 5k persist to a large degree?
Does it sound good enough below 5k to counter the response above?
What does the competition consist of? Can they reach the same SPL with fewer inherent problems?
Really, you could buy a coaxial from B&C, stick it in a sealed cab with B&C's own passive filter, and most likely be better off at half the price.
- Thread Starter
- #9
I'm also looking at JTR's (212HTR) or Genelec's (8361's for LCR). BTW, I'm trying to learn how to read/decipher these charts. When you say narrow or beaming above 5k, what am I looking at on the graph to see that? Thanks
Kennyknetter
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All mentioned speakers are very different, at very different price points.
What's the use? Home theater?
How loud do you want the speaker to be able to be?
How big can it to be?
How expensive can it be?
About the charts, do you see the sound power index? The orange line at the bottom? Do you see how it dips down at 5,5k, and then rapidly rises? That's an indicator of the dispersion getting wider relative to the on axis sound at 5,5k, and then narrower above that. You can see the same thing in the lines up top. The black line, which is the on axis response, is actually not as loud on axis at 5,5k as it is towards the walls, floor and cieling, ie, the early reflections, ie, the blue line.
As far as quality of sound goes, a smooth sound power line seem to be a very good indicator of a good sounding speaker when in room. I believe Harman did the research behind that. As far as the Ascendo speaker goes, it's far from flat. the Genelec is the best when it comes to sound power smoothness, but it's output capability is lacking for loud HT uses. The JTR is as loud as anything, and has a pretty decent sound power response for how damn loud it is. The louder HT communities seem to like JTR a LOT. Which one to pick? It's a tough choice, and it depends on your requirements.
- Thread Starter
- #11
Thank you for the explanation. The speakers will be for home theater use. I have a finished room over the garage that I’m turning into a theater. I’ve attached a pic. I plan on placing the speakers behind an AT screen. To be honest, the Genelecs are very intriguing because they’re active; however, I’m not going to lie, the budget for 3 of them up front, plus two surrounds, and 4 atmos would require me to save longer than I would like. I was concerned that they wouldn’t be able to provide the sound power in a HT environment.
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