Danny's ASR "Will you ACCEPT my Challenge?!"

[HarmonicTHD]

Yes, that is exactly and precisely what i mean. The keyword is objectively.

That’s nonsense. There are very clear and standardized methods to determine picture quality (color, dynamics, resolution and and and…) objectively (same goes for audio btw but a lot of people just don’t want to realize this). So one can easily test if a power cable influences any of these picture measurements. And no it doesn’t - why would it?

Edit. Thanks to @voodooless I realize I misunderstood your intentions. If so please disregard.

 

[voodooless]

That’s nonsense. There are very clear and standardized methods to determine picture quality (color, dynamics, resolution and and and…) objectively (same goes for audio btw but a lot of people just don’t want to realize this). So one can easily test if a power cable influences any of these picture measurements. And no it doesn’t - why would it?

It was about doing it visually.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

It was about doing it visually.

Oops my bad then. Apologize.

 

[beagleman]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your eyes are not evolved to be objective tools, there is very much post processing and loss compression happening.
Subjectively A and B are different:

Objectively A and B have the same color:

There are many post processing filters inside our brain that change what the eyes receptors detect into an internal subjective view of reality.
Can't trust your eyes. Can't trust your ears. Can't trust any sensors you have, sadly.

While I do agree with you, I also think it is FAR easier to compare 2 pictures of a TV side by side in the same room.

Audio, due to our fleeting auditory "memory" is harder to do accurately.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

While I do agree with you, I also think it is FAR easier to compare 2 pictures of a TV side by side in the same room.

Audio, due to our fleeting auditory "memory" is harder to do accurately.

Maybe. But why would you? Both Audio and TV measuring equipment is soo cheap nowadays (I am not talking about an AP) that everyone with a bit of knowledge and willingness to learn can get results which go way beyond the limit of seeing / hearing.

 

[GM3]

With video you can pause and compare images, but likely some would argue that static image and video aren't the same thing as with video you have different specs such as response time, ms for black to white, 'ghosting' and I don't know what else... But in the end, A/B comparison is still error prone tests where placebo can influence the result... It all comes back to BT and DBT... A/B comparisons are inherently unreliable.

It's not rocket science really... With 2 people, connect 2 power cables to outlet, and just switch with testee having to identify... If it makes a significant difference, should be easy, if not, then likely not worth the $ in case of obscenely priced snake-oil cables! Reasonable people who care about reality/truth will be convinced after failing such a test. Those who can't let go of their irrational beliefs won't, but...

The sad thing is that so few audiofools are even willing to test their beliefs... But hey, 3/4 of Americans believe in angels, 1/3 believe in UFOs, 1/4 believe in homeopathy, 1/4 believe in astrology, 1/x believe in audiofool snake-oil, etc.

People who want to believe will believe in anything... And worse, no amount of proof, evidence and arguments will convince those who do not want to be convinced...

 

[bodhi]

It was about doing it visually.

I'm still not buying it completely. To have our perception altered wouldn't there need to be something to cause it? Like knowing one of the TVs has premium power cord.

If you just have two pictures side by side with no other input I would think that spotting actual differences would be at least much, much easier than comparing sound.

 

[GM3]

I'm still not buying it completely. To have our perception altered wouldn't there need to be something to cause it? Like knowing one of the TVs has premium power cord.

If you just have two pictures side by side with no other input I would think that spotting actual differences would be at least much, much easier than comparing sound.

Like speakers or other components; No 2 monitors are likely exactly the same, there will be different reflections in the room, the viewing angle might not be identical, viewing distance, the light/objects in peripheral vision might have an effect, etc.. Could all lead to someone perceiving differences even if the 2 images are identical.

In the end, if you really want to be certain, have to go with large enough sample of BT/DBT, and see if people can reliably identify A vs B. Otherwise, error prone test is error prone. But think I'd agree that comparing 2 images might be easier than sound, but I wouldn't call such a comparison entirely reliable!

 

[mhardy6647]

That’s nonsense. There are very clear and standardized methods to determine picture quality (color, dynamics, resolution and and and…) objectively (same goes for audio btw but a lot of people just don’t want to realize this). So one can easily test if a power cable influences any of these picture measurements. And no it doesn’t - why would it?

Edit. Thanks to @voodooless I realize I misunderstood your intentions. If so please disregard.

There's certainly lots of chatter out there on the usual jawdropping improvements in image quality, blacker blacks, that sort of thing associated with boutique HDMI cables.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

What guarantee do we have that he isn't just going to clame the one with the most votes is the one with his special sauce cables?

 

[OnLyTNT]

What guarantee do we have that he isn't just going to clame the one with the most votes is the one with his special sauce cables?

I was thinking the very same...

Also, isn't there any laws against false advertising, uncertificated, non-standard electrical equipments etc in America? Why isn't there any act of legal investigation on these products? That is what grinds my gears at most...

 

[GM3]

Spoiler. "The big reveal" is that the 1st tracks were indeed the originals, and the others were recordings of speaker kits he sells... And allegedly lots of people preferred the sound of his kits over the originals, so therefore you should be buy his speaker kits... **SHOCKING** Who could have foreseen this...!

Guess I failed as I assumed that the test/challenge would have some sort of technical relevance... I did predict it would be a complete waste of time though. LOL

 

[mhardy6647]

And allegedly lots of people preferred the sound of his kits over the originals, so therefore you should be his speaker kits...

I will not be one of his loudspeaker kits. Sorry.

 

[TheBatsEar]

 

[Blumlein 88]

Spoiler. "The big reveal" is that the 1st tracks were indeed the originals, and the others were recordings of speaker kits he sells... And allegedly lots of people preferred the sound of his kits over the originals, so therefore you should be buy his speaker kits... **SHOCKING** Who could have foreseen this...!

Guess I failed as I assumed that the test/challenge would have some sort of technical relevance... I did predict it would be a complete waste of time though. LOL

And B was a tube amp while C was a chip amp. The chip amp apparently has a 20 khz tone or something going on all the time. Plus the differences at either end of the spectrum you would expect from a tube amp. Yawn...............we all know 85% of hifi is frequency response.

 

[GXAlan]

My interpretation of this is different and why I “trust my ears”.

Colorimeters works great. Measurements work great to discern differences in colors. That’s what digital photography is.

There are edge cases like this where A and B measure the same but are perceived differently. You can A B X and also not be able to determine what is what.

This is your theoretical, measures the same, but is perceived differently scenario.

What makes this different from snake oil is reproducibility and testability. You can remove the letters and I will consistently be able to show you what I perceive to be darker versus what I perceive to be brighter. This is what is missing from snake oil.

As for the recordings, if you prefer his speaker kits, he is showing that with this particular recording, the colorations/distortion may be preferred. That is consistent with the blind test of the tube amp vs straight wire with gain.

The speaker may not be the best for every music but it’s perfectly okay to like some coloration.

If you cannot hear any difference, then the recording may not be able to discern differences, or better stated the combined distortion of your playback system against the one with the speaker and ADC inline is indistinguishable.

The conclusions is subject to opinion, but if you preferred the recordings, it’s worth discussing.

That’s his challenge. Did you prefer straight wire with gain or a coloration introduced by his speaker and his mic?

 

[antcollinet]

That’s his challenge. Did you prefer straight wire with gain or a coloration introduced by his speaker and his mic?

The answer to which is "neither'

In the speaker recordings you are primarily hearing the room. Audio effects from his speaker kits would be swamped by the speaker/room interaction, and by the recording accuracy/consistency.

 

[Geert]

In the speaker recordings you are primarily hearing the room.

Indeed, so I'm surprised a lof of his fans prefered this sound. If this is what people want we could produce records in a fraction of the time and budget. In reality I'm afraid it would be your last assignment as a sound engineer.

 

[mhardy6647]

In reality I'm afraid it would be your last assignment as a sound engineer.

You mean, like Raymond's last day with the band?

 

[solderdude]

What's with the 20kHz tone only present in 'C' ?

Maybe a different speaker cable that makes the amp oscillate and is triggered by highest treble or is mirrored ?
Could be the reason there suddenly appears to be 'signal' above the source frequency limit.

Ahh.. a prototype class-D amp... seems to work at 20kHz or so given the mirrored treble.

Some preferred the mic recording.. seems they like added room reflections over a 'dryer' recording.