Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

[Landia]

Hello, after looking at the measurement on the 1st page within this thread, it looks like the Crown XLS 2502 are below power rating measurements:

Test from amirm at 8 Ohms: 310 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 8 Ohms: 440 Watts per channel


Test from amirm at 4 Ohms: 480 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 4 Ohms: 775 Watts per channel

Crown XLS 2502 775W 2-channel Power Amplifier

2-channel XLS DriveCore 2 Series Power Amplifier, 775W Continuous/ch at 4 ohms, with Massive DSP, Bandpass filters, Remote Power On/off, lightweight 10.8-lb chassis

www.sweetwater.com

So the Crown XLS 2502 power ratings are false correct?

 

[levimax]

Hello, after looking at the measurement on the 1st page within this thread, it looks like the Crown XLS 2502 are below power rating measurements:

Test from amirm at 8 Ohms: 310 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 8 Ohms: 440 Watts per channel


Test from amirm at 4 Ohms: 480 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 4 Ohms: 775 Watts per channel

Crown XLS 2502 775W 2-channel Power Amplifier

2-channel XLS DriveCore 2 Series Power Amplifier, 775W Continuous/ch at 4 ohms, with Massive DSP, Bandpass filters, Remote Power On/off, lightweight 10.8-lb chassis

www.sweetwater.com

So the Crown XLS 2502 power ratings are false correct?

It depends on how you measure peak power. Amir looks for the "knee" in the graph where clipping starts, if you allow up to 1% or 10% distortion you can get much higher power ratings. There is not an industry standard so read the details of the specs and of course buyer beware.

 

[Landia]

I would to see amirm do the same test on the Crown XLi 3500. It's power rating is ridiculous high, at 1000 watts into 8 Ohms!!!

I am looking to get either the Crown XLS 2502 or the Crown XLi 3500 to drive my Polk Audio LSiM 707 speakers.

 

[Everett T]

Hello, after looking at the measurement on the 1st page within this thread, it looks like the Crown XLS 2502 are below power rating measurements:

Test from amirm at 8 Ohms: 310 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 8 Ohms: 440 Watts per channel


Test from amirm at 4 Ohms: 480 Watts per channel

Crown Specs Measurement at 4 Ohms: 775 Watts per channel

Crown XLS 2502 775W 2-channel Power Amplifier

2-channel XLS DriveCore 2 Series Power Amplifier, 775W Continuous/ch at 4 ohms, with Massive DSP, Bandpass filters, Remote Power On/off, lightweight 10.8-lb chassis

www.sweetwater.com

So the Crown XLS 2502 power ratings are false correct?

I would to see amirm do the same test on the Crown XLi 3500. It's power rating is ridiculous high, at 1000 watts into 8 Ohms!!!

I am looking to get either the Crown XLS 2502 or the Crown XLi 3500 to drive my Polk Audio LSiM 707 speakers.

Without contacting Crown to understand their spec, it's moot. They could measure completely different then Amir does, they could measure on a 220 line eking out a bit more if 110 causes voltage drops at the highest voltage input. Just hard to say, I use the 2502 for subs bridged 4ohm and have never run out of juice.

 

[MediumRare]

Hello, after looking at the measurement on the 1st page within this thread...


So the Crown XLS 2502 power ratings are false correct?

Just as @levimax said, the respective measurements are at different distortion levels.

Crown specifies their XLS power ratings at 0.5% THD. https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-2502
@amirm 's "elbow" is at 0.5% THD+N.

Looking carefully at Amir's graphs, the Crown specs appear to be achieved.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Let's remember that 1dB is a 25% power change, so even 100W isn't too meaningful with this type of amp.

 

[dlaloum]

I didn't notice this vintage thread being referenced - so I thought I would post it... a bunch of people did comparative testing of the Crown XLS...

Conclusions and comparisons were made (with obvious differences between individuals) - but consensus at the time was that these are an excellent budget High End option...

Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

www.audiocircle.com

(Primarily Subjective.... and it is the older 1st generation model)

 

[usa_satriani]

Hello,

I have old school Lab gruppen LAB 900 in a 3 way active system for the lower frequency range (40-300hz). I have 2 Lab 300 for the mids and high.
Unfortunately it is getting old. I wonder what I should get in replacement, a Crown or something like NC250MP based amp. (I live in France)
Anyone compared good old school PA amp to newer Crown ?
I used to have some Crown like K2 but Lab Gruppen were way better in those days...

Thanks, Greg.

 

[dlaloum]

I haven't looked at the Crowns in a few years - had mine for about 10 years- at the time they were going for US$250 to US$400....

At the price they were (and still are) excellent. - I paid a bit more to get them shipped to Australia... so that made my used XLS2500 around US$300

However, now, they seem to be priced at more than double what they went for in 2010... the value proposition is very different.

I am a big fan - they sound great with my speakers - and if your speakers are a difficult load, or just need heaps of power - these may be a really good fit... but at around US$1000 there are lots of really nice amps.

I don't know what the situation is in France in terms of availability and pricing - the XLS and related amps are very robust, and purchasing them used is a possibility (if they have been used, as designed, for pro audio, they may have been bashed about... so there may be scratches etc... - but they are designed for this kind of wear and tear).

If I was shopping for an amp for a set of Quad ESL63's (or ESL2908's) I would not consider the XLS.

But most amps that I would look at for my Gallo speakers, cost double or more the price of the XLS today.... so they are still a really great bargain.

What do you expect from the amp? Does the speaker drop down to 2 ohm or below? How much headroom do you need?

My Beasties are rated at 440Wrms@8ohm, 775Wrms@4ohm and 1200Wrms@2ohm (stereo) - that's a lot of W's - I have also tried them bridged but with the diffcult load (speakers go down to 1.6ohm) - the bridged mode did not improve things.

With pro amps, things to watch for are Fan Noise - I have never heard mine turn on.
And Hiss - signal to noise - which is often an indicator of a mismatch of gain with the preamp... no sign of it with my setup.
I have heard proponents of the Crowns, but also the Yamahas... and even the Behringer

Do they sound good - yes.
Some have accused them of "2D" rendition of space - but plenty have reported them being just as 3D as many other very well regarded amps.

Lots of evaluation and review threads of the XLS famil of amps - the Audiocircle one from 2013/14/15 included a tour, where the amp was consecutively shipped to about a dozen audiophiles who each reviewed it - not all liked it - but it does tell a story of how the very same amp can sound great, and then ordinary, based on matching with the system within which it is installed.

Hope that helps

 

[usa_satriani]

Thanks for your reply,

Did they do a class D version 10 years ago ?

I have DIY speakers with 30cm Beyma with foam suspension, they are descent speakers, quite 'fast'. I have quite a big room even though I don't think I need plenty of power because of the active filtering, the fact that the speakers are quite efficient....

Yes I was also looking for the Yamaha competitor or the older P2500S...

I can also get a brand new MPA-S250NC for 500€ here... Could be worth trying If I like the philosophy...

or try this lol https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...400d-amplifier-with-hypex-modules.9044/page-3

 

[dlaloum]

Yes the XLS Drivecore amps are the proprietary Crown class D chipset (developed by Harman in conjunction with TI)...

I have a feeling they were first released in 2010 or thereabouts - the series 2 (current series) - were released in 2015.

The XLS amps before that were not "Drivecore" and not Class D.

Quite a few of the Crown XLS reviewers in the thread I posted the link to - compared it to Hypex amps.

 

[usa_satriani]

I found whats wrong with my amp : the gain nobs... So I guess there is no rush...

I think I will give these Hypex a try when I have some time/money and see by myself... My system is quite complicated because I have to set the all the filtering and gain parameters, so if the amp is good enough perhaps it is not the most important/difficult part of the system...

I use different small class D amps on my HT system (loxije, smsl, brz) and I think they do a pretty good job on Focal speakers. Also have a 1000w focal sub with a digital amp and can't complain.

 

[usa_satriani]

I opened the lab gruppen amp, it was full of dust... I cleaned and gained access to the gain control. It is a basic 3 plug cheap potentiometer. I could try to bypass it as I use it at max gain or change it.
Anyway, I am playing Marcus Miller and it is like a jackhammer, not sure the amp would transcend the setup

 

[jhaider]

Lots of evaluation and review threads of the XLS famil of amps - the Audiocircle one from 2013/14/15 included a tour, where the amp was consecutively shipped to about a dozen audiophiles who each reviewed it - not all liked it - but it does tell a story of how the very same amp can sound great, and then ordinary, based on matching with the system within which it is installed.

I skimmed that link. My takeaway is different from yours: many people have better imaginations than critical listening skills.

I have one of these, but just use it to drive subwoofers. I’m sure it’s fine for other uses, as long as care is taken with gain staging etc just like any other “pro” component connected to “consumer” gear. But with other adequate amps on hand here, no incentive to try it in another role. I can’t imagine many less productive uses of time than “listening” to an amp, unless that’s your business and you’re doing it for design/QC purposes.

 

[Frank207be]

I

Hello,

I have old school Lab gruppen LAB 900 in a 3 way active system for the lower frequency range (40-300hz). I have 2 Lab 300 for the mids and high.
Unfortunately it is getting old. I wonder what I should get in replacement, a Crown or something like NC250MP based amp. (I live in France)
Anyone compared good old school PA amp to newer Crown ?
I used to have some Crown like K2 but Lab Gruppen were way better in those days...

Thanks, Greg.

I used the Hypex NC400 on my B&C 21SW152 home cinema subwoofer and at higher volumes it simply lost control and couldn't keep up. The XLS2502PA OTOH doesn't even break a sweat and delivers a much tighter bass when pushed hard.

I'm in the market for my third and fourth XLS2502PA but they're sold out everywhere in Europe. Chip shortage?

 

[usa_satriani]

Lol, I looked at the xls 2502 on the shops and they say that it will be available in june or july 2022...

Thanks for your feedback, I think there is no rush for me now and that my old school toroidal Lab Gruppen handles bass drivers pretty well...also what jhaider says it's true, listening to electronics can turn in never ending circles. This is why I chose these kind of pro amps in the beginning, to trust them and not to wonder...

 

[dlaloum]

I

I used the Hypex NC400 on my B&C 21SW152 home cinema subwoofer and at higher volumes it simply lost control and couldn't keep up. The XLS2502PA OTOH doesn't even break a sweat and delivers a much tighter bass when pushed hard.

I'm in the market for my third and fourth XLS2502PA but they're sold out everywhere in Europe. Chip shortage?

Released in 2015... maybe they are about to release its replacement?

 

[birkbott]

I tried using a 1502 in my setup once and it sounded like ass. Hiss at the speakers, poor resolution. No good.

 

[dlaloum]

I tried using a 1502 in my setup once and it sounded like ass. Hiss at the speakers, poor resolution. No good.

Most likely a missmatch issue with the gain / pre out levels...

Typical best results have the XLS gain at circa 75% and Pre gain adjusted accordingly - but if the pre out is too low and you have to crank the XLS to the max - that is typically where hiss issues are reported.... (from multiple user reports using many different combinations of gear... but I have not experienced this problem, as my pre out seems to be providing a high enough Voltage to keep the XLS content)

The series 2 XLS's (xxx2) should have less of this issue as you have two input level options (pro and consumer) each having gain adjustment - but having too low an input V into your selected XLS input, with max gain as a result can similarly cause hiss issues. Which can also be compounded by very sensitive speakers - these are very high powered amps, best combined with mid to low efficiency speakers.... probably not the best amp for 95db/Wm + speakers

 

[birkbott]

Most likely a missmatch issue with the gain / pre out levels...

Typical best results have the XLS gain at circa 75% and Pre gain adjusted accordingly - but if the pre out is too low and you have to crank the XLS to the max - that is typically where hiss issues are reported.... (from multiple user reports using many different combinations of gear... but I have not experienced this problem, as my pre out seems to be providing a high enough Voltage to keep the XLS content)

The series 2 XLS's (xxx2) should have less of this issue as you have two input level options (pro and consumer) each having gain adjustment - but having too low an input V into your selected XLS input, with max gain as a result can similarly cause hiss issues. Which can also be compounded by very sensitive speakers - these are very high powered amps, best combined with mid to low efficiency speakers.... probably not the best amp for 95db/Wm + speakers

Yeah I do remember being able to attenuate the hiss somewhat by lowering the gain. I also remember I was using RCA and not XLR which could explain some of it. I think the preamp was a Schiit Saga. Regardless, I was expecting better. Overall I just didn’t hear the clarity I wanted. My speakers were X-LS encores, not overly efficient.