Crown XLS2502 Stereo Amplifier Review

[dlaloum]

I think most of us are surprised when we hit power amp incompatibilities like this...
And it gets exacerbated when pro amps are used, as they typically require much high Voltage inputs.

Integrateds, Receivers, and matched single brand stacks make life a heck of a lot easier !! (but less interesting)

The Quad amps I am very fond of (currently sitting in the corner unused) - like a lower V than is typical, and therefore can have a different set of issues... (many modify them to take standard 0.7Vrms input) - unless used with the other Quad components! (I believe more recent Quad gear has gone with industry standard V levels.... that is to say the last 20 or so years...)

There is something to be said for a honking great Receiver with a big power supply, capable of feeding 150W/Ch into at least 2 channels (and perhaps 120W into 7 !)...

The search for the next increment of performance, at a budget price, can be frustrating.... if cost is not object, then it can be easy again of course!

 

[exm]

I am using a ported sub tuned to 22Hz with this amp. I believe this amp has a 20Hz HPF build-in and a user-selectable 30Hz HPF. Is that correct? I assume the 20Hz "automatic" filter would be sufficient?

 

[dlaloum]

It has onboard filters that can be set up to be HPF or LPF at whatever frequency you want from their selection of frequencies:

50Hz, 53Hz, 56Hz, 59Hz, 63Hz, 66Hz, 70Hz, 74Hz, 79Hz, 83Hz, 88Hz, 94Hz, 99Hz, 105Hz, 111Hz, 118Hz, 125Hz, 132Hz, 140Hz, 149Hz, 157Hz, 167Hz, 177Hz, 187Hz, 198Hz, 210Hz, 223Hz, 236Hz, 250Hz, 265Hz, 281Hz, 297Hz, 315Hz, 334Hz, 354Hz, 375Hz, 397Hz, 420Hz, 472Hz, 500Hz, 530Hz, 561Hz, 595Hz, 630Hz, 667Hz, 707Hz, 749Hz, 794Hz, 841Hz, 891Hz, 944Hz, 1.00kHz, 1.06kHz, 1.12kHz, 1.19kHz, 1.26kHz, 1.33kHz, 1.41kHz, 1.50kHz, 1.59kHz, 1.68kHz, 1.78kHz, 1.89kHz, 2.00kHz, 2.12kHz, 2.24kHz, 2.38kHz, 2.52kHz, 2.67kHz, 2.83kHz, 3.00kHz

(for my XLS2500...)

 

[exm]

It has onboard filters that can be set up to be HPF or LPF at whatever frequency you want from their selection of frequencies:

50Hz, 53Hz, 56Hz, 59Hz, 63Hz, 66Hz, 70Hz, 74Hz, 79Hz, 83Hz, 88Hz, 94Hz, 99Hz, 105Hz, 111Hz, 118Hz, 125Hz, 132Hz, 140Hz, 149Hz, 157Hz, 167Hz, 177Hz, 187Hz, 198Hz, 210Hz, 223Hz, 236Hz, 250Hz, 265Hz, 281Hz, 297Hz, 315Hz, 334Hz, 354Hz, 375Hz, 397Hz, 420Hz, 472Hz, 500Hz, 530Hz, 561Hz, 595Hz, 630Hz, 667Hz, 707Hz, 749Hz, 794Hz, 841Hz, 891Hz, 944Hz, 1.00kHz, 1.06kHz, 1.12kHz, 1.19kHz, 1.26kHz, 1.33kHz, 1.41kHz, 1.50kHz, 1.59kHz, 1.68kHz, 1.78kHz, 1.89kHz, 2.00kHz, 2.12kHz, 2.24kHz, 2.38kHz, 2.52kHz, 2.67kHz, 2.83kHz, 3.00kHz

(for my XLS2500...)

For the XLS 2502: “The PureBand Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave filter allowing you to choose a point between 30Hz and 3kHz on standard 1/12th octave centers. Three filter types are available: Low Pass, High Pass and Band Pass.”

 

[dlaloum]

I have no desire to reproduce anything but excellent, low-distortion HiFi sound at home - not the sound signature that reminds me of the many live nightclub gigs I have attended over the decades. Although I respect amps like the Crown for what they are and what they do, I would not trade my vintage Classé 70wpc Model Seventy stereo amp for any Crown amp.

In a purely objective sense.... the Model Seventy is specified at 0.1% THD - in SINAD terms that would be circa -60db
The Crown comes in at 0.013% THD (rounding up) and SINAD of -78db

Seems to me that as measured (for Crown) and specified (for Classe) - the Crown provides the lower distortion alternative?

 

[dlaloum]

Classé. Made right here in Quebec. I do wonder how their products measure.

Highly regarded....

Handy calculator here to convert THD% to SINAD...

THD to dB - convert percent % to decibels dB percentage voltage % vs per cent converter THD+N total harmonic distortions calculation signal distortion factor attenuation in dB to distortion factor k in percent decibel damping - sengpielaudio Sengpiel

Calculate THD and distortions decibels dB to percentage % per cent percent voltage % vs converter and dB signal distortion THD+N total harmonic distortions factor attenuation damping - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

The Delta 250W/ch @8 ohm has worse SINAD at rated power (500w/4ohm) ... but better at 156W into 4ohm (spec measured at 25V)

So... in theory... at most "normal" listening levels, and into a standard speaker load (nothing too awkward!), the Classe should sound better

Power Ratings into 8/4/2ohms are 250/500/350 ohms.... the thing to watch for is that last one - with difficult loads, it doesn't even pretend to cope well - it hits its limits at the equivalent of around 85W into 8 ohms

So chances are it would NOT be happy with difficult loads (such as my Gallo's, a number of brands of ESL's, etc...)

The Crown rates at 440/775/1200 watts - so at 2ohms it has the equivalent of around 300W into 8 ohms - not quite the 4x of the 8ohm rating - so there are some limitations being hit... but pretty good.

Basically it indicates that the Crown is going to be unphased by difficult speaker loads.

This is completely ignoring minor details, such as the fact that the Classe amp costs 10x as much.

 

[Xulonn]

This is completely ignoring minor details, such as the fact that the Classe amp costs 10x as much.

I paid $400 for a used Classé Model Seventy. How is $400 ten times more expensive than the $729 Sweetwater charges for the Crown XLS2502? (Used Crown units go for about $400 - same as the Classé.)

OTOH, you are correct about specs - the Crown is rated better than the Classé. It is an excellent amplifier from a company in the commercial/professional audio sector that has a reputation for ruggedness and reliability. However, Crown has no appeal to me - I'm not into the "live music in bars and clubs" aesthetic and don't need the extra "features".

For some of us, in addition to enjoying well-reproduced music, the hardware side of audio is also a hobby, and many hobbies are not logical pastimes. Many people like to collect and try things, even if our leisure-time choices make no sense to others. If I were to buy an amplifier for my needs on a purely logical basis, a Topping PA3s would probably be a good fit - and the PA5 might be overkill for my tiny room, moderate listening levels, easy-to-drive loudspeakers, and old ears.

My current 70wpc ICEPower Class D kit amplifier in a Ghent case - which replaced the Classé - is about to be replaced by a $750 EL34 YarLand tube amp. If hum and noise are inaudible, I expect that my 80 y/o ears will be more than pleased with the sound quality. So that results in a classic Classé Class AB amplifier (lots of class, for those into puns) being replaced by a Class D amplifier, which is now being replaced by a Class A push-pull tube amplifier, which has worse specs than my two previous ones.

I spend about $14/month on electricity, and expect that the YarLand amp will add a dollar or so per month to that.

I look forward to listening to classical music - especially the Chicago Symphony Orchestra from the 1950s - which will bring back memories of my high school days when I was an usher at Chicago's Symphony Hall, and present for some of those classic early RCA "Living Stereo" recordings. I will enjoy that and other acoustic music, as I listen while basking in the glow of my 6CA7 and 6SN7 tubes!

 

[dlaloum]

In my case - I purchased a Pair (for BiAmping) of Crown XLS2500's, some years ago, used, at under US$300 each - out of pure / sheer curiosity.

I did not expect them to sound better than my "Audiophile" Quad amps.

But they did - so they stayed.

The Gallo's do like a bit of power - not related to loudness... but they sound more "at ease" when driven by something with a lot of "Grunt".

All the amps I compared to the Crowns were rated at worst case 140w/ch 8ohm (and in actual testing, quite a bit more)

So none of them were being driven hard - at the time I purchased the Crowns, I figured that it would be an interesting experiment, and I would be able to onsell them later, without making a loss.

The other reason I was curious about the Crowns, was that Anthony Gallo used to demo these speakers with 500W Spectrum Musician Class-D amps.... amps that were beyond my price range, and have since become unobtainable, after the passing of their maker. - Indeed the Gallo's sound good with that much power! (or is it the current capability that makes them sound good?)

Right now, I could onsell them and make a tidy profit, but they remain the best amps I have heard in my system.

 

[Frank207be]

I am using a ported sub tuned to 22Hz with this amp. I believe this amp has a 20Hz HPF build-in and a user-selectable 30Hz HPF. Is that correct? I assume the 20Hz "automatic" filter would be sufficient?

I've read somewhere that all XLS xx02 amps have a 6dB/octave HPF @ 20Hz so I don't think that's enough protection against overexcursion below tuning.

 

[AnthonyH]

I bought a pair of Magnepan MG1.6 QR speakers many years ago but they didn't sound very good with the JVC receiver I owned so as soon as I could afford an upgrade I bought a Mackie 1400i on the basis of its specs. I know that specs can be misleading but the power specs seem both impressive and credible:
Continuous Average Output Power, both
channels driven:
250 watts per channel into 8 ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz,
with no more than 0.012% THD
425 watts per channel into 4 ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz,
with no more than 0.025% THD
630 watts per channel into 2 ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz,
with no more than 0.050% THD
Also, few power amplifiers come with a spec for voltage slew rate and I don't recall any that spec current slew rate.
Slew Rate:
Voltage Slew Rate
> 50V/μs
> 100V/μs bridged
Current Slew Rate > 32A/μs at 2Ω

This was all fine until I moved to a smaller room and the noise of the Mackie fan was really annoying. I tried an Emotiva XPA-200, which should have performed well, but I didn't like the sound at all. I don't think it was a headroom problem because a Niles SI-2100 with half the power sounded better, though not as good as the Mackie. I ended up reverting to the Mackie; I moved it into the next room so I can't hear the fan.

I normally listen at a level of 85 dBSPL, though some material tempts me into going louder. At 85 dBSPL, I have about 20 dB of headroom, based on the guidance on the Crown web site https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power and also the level indication provided by the Mackie.

To sum up this rambling post: if you have 4-ohm speakers with low sensitivity, the Crown XLS2502 or some other Class H professional amp may be exactly what you need.

As a footnote, my TV uses TOSLINK to send two-channel audio to my DAC and I saw a noticeable improvement in sound quality when I installed a DAC that reduces phase noise, Emotiva XDA-2.

 

[TomH]

The Crown XLS2502 subjectively sound pretty good compared to high quality amplifiers, if one uses the XLR inputs. The RCA cables attached seem to act as an antenna, picking up noise and hum from other system components. This does not seem to happen with the XLR inputs. If one inserts shorts plugs in the RCA inputs on the Crown it becomes silent. Perhaps the RCA connectors on the Crown are actually an after thought and likely not properly shielded. Pro gear is almost always connected with balanced cables these days. Our comparative listening test were performed with Martin Logan electrostatic and B&W 803 speakers.

 

[dlaloum]

On the XLS2500 (not XLS2502), the XLR/RCA and Jacks are supposed to be interconnected/equivalent....

 

[TomH]

On the XLS2500 (not XLS2502), the XLR/RCA and Jacks are supposed to be interconnected/equivalent....

I performed the same test on my XLS2500 with the same result. The RCA cables produced a higher noise floor than the XLRs. That said I don't doubt that they are interconnected as you say. My sense is that the XLR cables are rejecting noise that the RCA cables are picking up. It is interesting that my other amps don't have the noise issue when connected to the same RCAs.

 

[dlaloum]

So you are saying that an RCA output from the pre, into the XLR input in the XLS, rejects noise more effectively, than the same output into the RCA input? (or are you using a balanced XLR output to the XLS Input?)

 

[TomH]

I'm saying that when I connect my McIntosh MX136 to the Crown 2502 XLS via the RCA inputs on both, using a Straightwire Rhapsody cable, noise and hum are noticeably louder than connecting the MX136 to the 2502 using balanced XLR cables on both devices.

 

[dlaloum]

Ahh, yes, that is to be expected... that is the design purpose of balanced xlr connections!

Sadly not an option for those of us without balanced outputs.

 

[HansWursT619]

For the ones able to read all these measurements. How does it compare to the 1502?
Does the 2502 measure better other than its maximum power rating?

 

[dlaloum]

For the ones able to read all these measurements. How does it compare to the 1502?
Does the 2502 measure better other than its maximum power rating?

The 2502 measured slightly worse on SINAD (Signal to Noise and Distortion) than the 1502 by around 5db... - they are relatively noisy, by the standards of high quality domestic/consumer amplifiers... on the other hand they sit in the middle of a bunch of well regarded consumer/domestic amplifiers... - Look at the SINAD Chart @ 5W / 4 ohm load - its the Bar chart - each bar is a single amplifier - the higher the bar, the better the performance - right at the top of the chart is the much vaunted Benchmark AHB2 with 113db SINAD - that is truly state of the art. - But you will see quite a few very well regarded amplifiers sitting just above and just below the Crowns.

I run a pair of the 1st generation XLS2500's - with a pair of very current hungry speakers - I don't think they need the power output of the Crowns, but they do need a lot of current due to low impedance.... and they sound better on the crowns, than on much more expensive audiophile amps, which simply cannot supply the required current.

If you have speakers that really require amps capable of driving 2 ohm or even 1 ohm loads - then the Crowns are fantastic value. - Or if you need buckets of pure power... the W/$ ratio is very good - especially used - they are frequently available used from the pro market at circa $300 - and they are robust/reliable.

At some point I may try alternative amps, assuming I find something suitable, within a price bracket I can afford. (for $600, I have 4 channels each putting out 440W@8ohm and 1200W@2ohm...)- but yes I would certainly consider an alternative that met my requirements at a reasonable price, and had better SINAD.... circa 96db+ would be my target.

 

[HansWursT619]

The 2502 measured slightly worse on SINAD (Signal to Noise and Distortion) than the 1502 by around 5db... - they are relatively noisy, by the standards of high quality domestic/consumer amplifiers... on the other hand they sit in the middle of a bunch of well regarded consumer/domestic amplifiers... - Look at the SINAD Chart @ 5W / 4 ohm load - its the Bar chart - each bar is a single amplifier - the higher the bar, the better the performance - right at the top of the chart is the much vaunted Benchmark AHB2 with 113db SINAD - that is truly state of the art. - But you will see quite a few very well regarded amplifiers sitting just above and just below the Crowns.

I run a pair of the 1st generation XLS2500's - with a pair of very current hungry speakers - I don't think they need the power output of the Crowns, but they do need a lot of current due to low impedance.... and they sound better on the crowns, than on much more expensive audiophile amps, which simply cannot supply the required current.

If you have speakers that really require amps capable of driving 2 ohm or even 1 ohm loads - then the Crowns are fantastic value. - Or if you need buckets of pure power... the W/$ ratio is very good - especially used - they are frequently available used from the pro market at circa $300 - and they are robust/reliable.

At some point I may try alternative amps, assuming I find something suitable, within a price bracket I can afford. (for $600, I have 4 channels each putting out 440W@8ohm and 1200W@2ohm...)- but yes I would certainly consider an alternative that met my requirements at a reasonable price, and had better SINAD.... circa 96db+ would be my target.

Thank you for the reply. The SINAD is one I can understand. I was wondering more about the other charts.
I probably don't need the extra power of the 2502, but if it performs better in some other way, I'd consider spending the extra money.

 

[stealthie]

Hey everyone, new to the forum. I found this thread searching for 2502 reviews and found this review very helpful. My only question is how many clean watts could this do bridged at 4ohms? I see the impressive numbers it did with 2 channels, but would like to know real world numbers bridged. I know Crown says 2400watts but...

Looking to drive a pair of subs and need as much power as i can get. Any help is appreciated. Thanks