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Charged coupled crossovers? Measurements? Proof?

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mfaughn

mfaughn

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Also, I found this. Seems relevant given that the alleged benefit of charge coupling of caps is related (I think) to dielectric absorption.
 

fineMen

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Also, I found this. Seems relevant given that the alleged benefit of charge coupling of caps is related (I think) to dielectric absorption.
Don't know haw to link it directly, but from the above web site (quoted as fair use in scientific context):

"I only heard about 'charge coupling' fairly recently, although it's apparently been around for a while. This is best described as a complete crock, and it doesn't stand up to even the most rudimentary scrutiny. Yes, the 9V battery will last for its shelf life (there's no current drawn other than a tiny leakage), but it's simply a waste of parts and a battery. We all know that the battery will eventually leak its essential fluids (which are corrosive). It's not shown, but a single 9V battery can 'charge' multiple different caps within a crossover network via additional 1MΩ resistors.

I must confess that this has to be one of the most pointless exercises I have ever seen, even though there is no end to other pointless exercises in audio. The needless increase of parts (and cost) will never provide an audible 'improvement' in a double-blind test, although there might be a small audible difference because of the extra capacitance (due to the 'bypass' caps) which will change the crossover frequency slightly."

He's Australian and I wasn't that harsh. But the language taken aside, I agree. Dielectric absorption isn't an issue if the circiut is low impedance, as he said. Please keep in mind that even electrolytics are useful if a) not overloaded current wise and b) used as the symmetric bipolar variant. I never had any problems with even super old specimen of trustworthy pedigree, but that's anecdotal.
 

Cbdb2

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Is this what we are talking about?

This is not the same as the JBL circuit.
 

fineMen

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This is not the same as the JBL circuit.
The second link reports intermodulation distortion. But reiterated, I doubt that well aware that my attitude might curtail the reputation of the authors. The 'bias' is a layman's view on those things involved and in no way credible. Debunk all the b/s from 40y back over and over again? And: again! Again! Do it again, Sam. Sam: no. No way.

Do you ask for proof, besides the very fact that it isn't used by JBL anymore, despite of an oder of magnitude better speaker drivers today? I could do that. But, forgive me, not for free. :facepalm:

Fun fact: a proponent of that exquisite tech/ could provide evidence.
 
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mfaughn

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Do you ask for proof, besides the very fact that it isn't used by JBL anymore, despite of an oder of magnitude better speaker drivers today? I could do that. But, forgive me, not for free. :facepalm:
Are you sure about that? Are they not using the voltage drop across a diode to provide a charge (in lieu of a battery)?
JBL 4367 XO images

and

 

fineMen

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Are you sure about that? Are they not using the voltage drop across a diode to provide a charge (in lieu of a battery)?
JBL 4367 XO images

and

In case we take this still serious, and further if I were to do such a thing I would not use what I know as a voltage drop. The diode would charge the cap(s) to the peak voltage (minus the minimum voltage drop in high impedance / low current appl/ ) of a sine wave, either + or -. This means that the diode takes away a little from the 'signal'. Good idea? I leave it to you.

Anyway, thank's for pointing to it! First I wrote ".. it seems ..". Sorry.

ps: this particular case may be connected to using electrolytics, but without the schematic, just speculation
 

BR52

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In case we take this still serious, and further if I were to do such a thing I would not use what I know as a voltage drop. The diode would charge the cap(s) to the peak voltage (minus the minimum voltage drop in high impedance / low current appl/ ) of a sine wave, either + or -. This means that the diode takes away a little from the 'signal'. Good idea? I leave it to you.

Anyway, thank's for pointing to it! First I wrote ".. it seems ..". Sorry.

ps: this particular case may be connected to using electrolytics, but without the schematic, just speculation
Did you hear something about voltage doubler, multiplier? For sure more than one diode. Vt - TV did it for kilo volts, an extreme example.
 
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mfaughn

mfaughn

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This means that the diode takes away a little from the 'signal'. Good idea? I leave it to you.
While I don't understand the details nearly as well as some here quite obviously do...No, that doesn't sound like a good idea. I recently let go of a set of B&W DM2000 which had a rather busy crossover that, among other things, appeared to be drawing power for an LED. That struck me as suspect and questionable for the same reason. The LED wasn't lighting up (anymore?) so I don't know what was up with them. Those speakers did sound pretty good though...
 

JaapD

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The B&W DM2000 has an audio-signal-powered overload circuit (APOC) that instantly cuts off the drive units if a very high level threatens to damage them; it simultaneously lights an LED on the front of the speaker enclosure. So it is a good sign you didn't see the LED lighting up....

Cheers,
JaapD
 

Robh3606

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In case we take this still serious, and further if I were to do such a thing I would not use what I know as a voltage drop. The diode would charge the cap(s) to the peak voltage (minus the minimum voltage drop in high impedance / low current appl/ ) of a sine wave, either + or -. This means that the diode takes away a little from the 'signal'. Good idea? I leave it to you.

Anyway, thank's for pointing to it! First I wrote ".. it seems ..". Sorry.

ps: this particular case may be connected to using electrolytics, but without the schematic, just speculation

There is a 10k series resistor for each diode so there is no current loss. It's all the caps used in the network.

Rob :)
 
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