BUCKEYEAMPS Hypex NCx500 Amplifier 2channel Review

[Toni Mas]

One question remains for me: It possible that an home user produce the same disaster as happened on the test bench with a musical program?

 

[peng]

They didn’t say that for the amplifier. They said for the SMPS. Their amplifiers can deliver the rated power if you can cool them. It’s their power supply that is limited. It’s also the power supply that failed in this test.

It’s Hypex’s confusing specs that cause the issue. They do not offer a full amplifier spec.

Actually they said so in the power amp modules datasheet too, and I believe I posted that part, but will double check later. The clearly stated the amp modules are rated 700 w peak output, never claimed it was continuous.

 

[sarumbear]

One question remains for me: It possible that an home user produce the same disaster as happened on the test bench with a musical program?

Have a dance party and see…

 

[levimax]

On the contrary,as I posted a little earlier in the tread (just a few posts above the one you quoted) current is stated as "guarded" (see the screenshot).
I can't think of a stronger expression to state a condition of safety (the lamp when we first test a diy amp does exactly that) but then again English is not one of my languages.

Edit:link to screenshot

I see "guarded @ 27 amps" but also "Do not exceed or there will be damage" so not sure how it works but to me the 27 amp limit is a limit to prevent fires but not nessisarily save the PS but I could be wrong.

 

[boXem]

They said the SMPS will fail if limits are breached. See their notice at the top.

View attachment 304043

These are the NCx500 limits...

 

[Apollon Audio]

They didn’t say that for the amplifier. They said for the SMPS. Their amplifiers can deliver the rated power if you can cool them. It’s their power supply that is limited. It’s also the power supply that failed in this test.

It’s Hypex’s confusing specs that cause the issue. They do not offer a full amplifier spec.

We've done a lot of testing with these modules. It makes a difference if you mount the Hypex power supply on a 3mm thick aluminium baseplate or 10mm aluminium baseplate. When you provide a better passive or active cooling to these modules, they will output higher continuous power. It is the amplifier modules that generate the most heat. The transistors are mounted on the bottom of the amplifier module. So mounting this module to a 10mm aluminium plate or heatsink will result in a lot higher continuous power than when mounted on a 3mm thick aluminium plate for instance. So the continuous power depends on how the manufacturer implements these modules in their design.

 

[sarumbear]

Actually they said so in the power amp modules datasheet too, and I believe I posted that part, but will double check later. The clearly stated the amp modules are rated 700 w peak output, never claimed it was continuous.

BUCKEYEAMPS Hypex NCx500 Amplifier 2channel Review

It could be interesting to know how long it was demanded to this amp to run over 100W continuously, If it had been running above 325W more than 10 sec, if proper cooling time was done in between tests. Again not that he should have, but good info to assess I agree. That is a fair question...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[GXAlan]

Hypex stated clearly that the 700 W rating was not continuous. Regarless, there are very few manufacturers that specify continuous power output that is continuous indefinitely. Most of them, use that term without clearly stating the condition/duration. Do you have an amp that actually say what its literally continuous, non stop output rating is? Again, there are some, but very few that I am aware of.

I agree that HypeX is not at fault.

But it’s worth nothing that Marantz uses a quartet of NC500OEMs and a pair of SMPS600s for bridged dual mono, and they just quote 200W into 8 ohms

Which is pretty close to HypeX’s 100W continuous rating for a single NC500.

HypeX is like ESS or AKM. They have a theoretical max performance of the design but the finished product is responsible for defining the spec. This is where I ask Buckeye and others to just be clearer.

Separately, I think @thin bLue has shown both Yamaha and Buckeye amps that fail. Yamaha is just as guilty of bad protection circuitry.

There are two separate issues to discuss.
1) how should vendors advertise?
2) what level of protection/reliability is desired?

Even if you only advertise 100W, should an amp be able to shut down gracefully if you overload the input? Or it overheats? Or is asking for premium protection circuitry limited to McIntosh “Power Guard” and high-end luxury products? Fancier luxury cars have fancier driver assistance features.

These questions are fully relevant now that we are in the era of good performance at low costs.

 

[Sokel]

These are the NCx500 limits...

Self guarded by the module?
So hopefully retesting with the new SMPS will show no harm to them,that confirms what @Buckeye Amps thinks too about the failure.

 

[peng]

BUCKEYEAMPS Hypex NCx500 Amplifier 2channel Review

It could be interesting to know how long it was demanded to this amp to run over 100W continuously, If it had been running above 325W more than 10 sec, if proper cooling time was done in between tests. Again not that he should have, but good info to assess I agree. That is a fair question...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That's the same datasheet I referred to, in which it specified the 700 W as "Peak" and under the "Continuous" rating space was left blank, with note 1:

So, Hypex did not specify a continuous rating, period. It will be up to the builder to implement their "thermal system" and then they could provide the continuous rating. And that's why I suggested what buckeyeamp should do, in regard to their specs.

 

[Schollaudio]

thanks for your effort! This papaer shows very detail measurement... so amazing.
I believe the company can make enhanced amplifier with appropriate psu.

Keep in mind with music power the dynamic peaks are so fast the PSU won't be so taxed.

 

[sarumbear]

That's the same datasheet I referred to, in which it specified the 700 W as "Peak" and under the "Continuous" rating space was left blank, with note 1:

View attachment 304049

So, Hypex did not specify a continuous rating, period. It will be up to the builder to implement their "thermal system" and then they could provide the continuous rating. And they why I suggested what buckeyeamp should do, in regard to their specs.

Not that easy. Read heading 8.

https://www.hypex.nl/media/8c/22/86/1646037796/SMPS1200Axx0_10xx.pdf

 

[MicroAudio]

I know that Buckeye advertises their new PSU contracted from Micro Audio has this capability:



He doesn’t mention if he will use this SMPS on his stereo/mono options, but I assume he would.

@MicroAudio this is outside the scope of this thread, but I would appreciate it if you could talk about your PSU’s PFC and the benefits it might bring to consumers audio solutions?

The SMPS1K-PFCR2 is the closest SMPS to compare to the HYPEX SMPS1200.

The SMPS1K-PFCR2 brings with it the following futures.

• Active power corrector, to increase the efficiency of the SMPS & allows a wide AC input range.
• Standby power consumption is less than 0.2W.
• Onboard standby power supply.
• Onboard inrush current limiter and turn on delay control.
• Stable DC output voltage at any AC input voltage as low as 85VAC.

I will post more data about the continuous output power into my thread because we received many emails today asking about that.

Hope that helps

 

[boXem]

Quote removed by Moderators

boXem - Stereo amplifiers

boxem-audio.eu

There is a spec sheet on the exact same page you linked. It may be time for a break now.

 

[AdamG]

Unnecessary Insults posts removed or edited. Several thread bans and Warnings handed out. Thread locked for a time out so participants can take a break and cool off. Please try a little harder and for those that were able to debate this topic without tossing out insults and snark. Thank you for not adding to the fray.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. Thread will be unlocked in an hour or so.

 

[AdamG]

Carry On and please be civil. Pretty please

 

[TK750]

Not that easy. Read heading 8.

https://www.hypex.nl/media/8c/22/86/1646037796/SMPS1200Axx0_10xx.pdf

Apologies if I am misunderstanding as I'm a total layman, but is this effectively saying the maximum continuous power (presumably for any length of time longer than 10 secs) one can safely achieve from the supply, assuming a sufficient cooling solution (i.e not exceeding 95 celsius), is 325W across both channels? Not a problem in real world usage at all but definitely worth knowing for test cases such as this?

 

[Toni Mas]

Apologies if I am misunderstanding as I'm a total layman, but is this effectively saying the maximum continuous power (presumably for any length of time longer than 10 secs) one can safely achieve from the supply, assuming a sufficient cooling solution (i.e not exceeding 95 celsius), is 325W across both channels? Not a problem in real world usage at all but definitely worth knowing for test cases such as this?

It assumes a continuous to peak power ratio of 1/8, Imho a conservative enough figure for any musical program.
Of course not apt for torture tests as submitted by the OP.

 

[xaxxon]

Apologies if I am misunderstanding as I'm a total layman, but is this effectively saying the maximum continuous power (presumably for any length of time longer than 10 secs) one can safely achieve from the supply, assuming a sufficient cooling solution (i.e not exceeding 95 celsius), is 325W across both channels? Not a problem in real world usage at all but definitely worth knowing for test cases such as this?

My interpretation was that with sufficient cooling it can maintain max output not "steady" output. But that requires the system integrator to do additional work to maintain the temperature. The board itself is guaranteed for 10s without any additional thermal work by the integrator.

 

[GXAlan]

Is this effectively saying the maximum continuous power (presumably for any length of time longer than 10 secs) one can safely achieve from the supply, assuming a sufficient cooling solution (i.e not exceeding 95 celsius), is 325W across both channels? Not a problem in real world usage at all but definitely worth knowing for test cases such as this?

Right. And I think what this review/measurement is showing us is that we don’t really know what “sufficient cooling” is and the protection doesn’t kick in reliably in the way we think (from a failed Power supply; in contrast to Marantz’s implementation which has some vendor specific protection circuits).

If you look at this, it’s tricky because you have soldering irons which are 15 watts and of course, the easy bake oven, originally used a lightbulb of 100W.

Heat Sink Size Calculator | Celsia

Free online calculator used to estimate heat sink size during the initial design phase. Designed for mechanical and thermal engineers.

celsiainc.com

This lets you see how hard or easy it is to deal with heat when you don’t have a fan.