• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

AV123 / GR Research X-Voce Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 281 93.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 10 3.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 8 2.7%

  • Total voters
    301

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,416
Likes
4,573
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
Was Linn reasonably priced a few decades ago ? Their latest offerings are very expensive.
Linn and Naim was always regarded by our service engineers as very expensive for what was inside.

A true UK story follows and this set the scene for their ludicrously high pricing now - In the early to mid 80's, we being one of the three largest Linn and Naim dealers in the UK at the time, had a number of 'foreigners here on holiday' wanting to buy the gear and take it back to their home countries. Worst of all were European types who were bypassing the local distributors and said distributors started to complain. Letters were sent out reading 'us' the riot act and in Linn's case, not even LP12 update kits were exempt!

So, what to do? As of '85 to '87 or so, the price lists of both Linn and Naim began to have huge increases way over inflation and I think over three years the retail prices od Linn's products increased by around 25%. Naim (and maybe Linn too) continued to have automatic price rises inline with inflation every April 1st (surely not coincidence) for decades after and of course with both makes, a new model was almost always far more expensive than the unit which preceded it, despite prices of components falling as I understood it to be. The reputation of said brands kept the sales going and by the time that vinyl 'died' as a mainstream format in the late 80's, both makes had digital sources (Naim) and electronics with digital on the way (Linn). Things were moving fast with domestic audio here and I was still young enough to regard a year as quite a long time lived. I have to whinge at the Akito tonearm, which started life at around two hundred quid in the late 80's or thereabouts and finished off at nearly SIXTEEN HUNDRED a couple of years ago, albeit supposedly made with better materials than the 'plasticine' originals, the pillars of which being easily crushed (by us ignorant dealers taught to overtighten everything) which knackered the bearings...

Linn didn't really enter the high end 'B&O Catchment' market with solidly milled-out ally cases and so on until the mid noughties by which time I'd left the retail side of the industry. their speakers began to have the tweeter 'array' and the CD12 player had just come out (whatever happened to that £12,000 product and can you get one serviced?).

The above are memories of my experience in the UK scene of course and hopefully reasonably factual. The Linn guys told me in 1987 how bad vinyl was (although their crap was better than everyone else's crap in their opinion) and proved it to me too!!! - But obviously they've improved their vinyl source no end (they really have) with extremely lucrative upgrades every few years to keep the largely now retired but 'comfortably off' faithful on board.

Apologies for going so far off topic. GR Research has little to no presence here apart from Youtube as far as I know.
 
Last edited:

Psycher1

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
26
Chiming in to say that I have a pair of X-Statik. I like them, for what it's worth, but I had to EQ the hell out of it. That bass error is present. In fact, that graph the customer sent you of their 2nd x-voce looks exactly like my in-room response from my X-Static.

In fact, I made a post about it here, thinking it was a huge room mode. I have been so concerned about it that I started building room treatments, but maybe this will be a good excuse to get back into soldering and build my own crossover board.
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
What of it? That's to ward off fairies!

I don't know why I Googled it, but damn it, you are right!

1700150594565.png
 

Toni Mas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Messages
490
Likes
315
I like the idea of the secret, hidden BR port ;) But not every impedance double hump is caused by a BR concept (at least the cabinet plan does not provide for a BR port).

The impedance peak at 65Hz is the resonant frequency of the CB woofer. The impedance peak at 190Hz is most likely caused by the crossover between CB woofer and OB woofer.

With the CB woofer low-pass, the impedance near the crossover frequency increases with increasing frequency. With the OB woofer high-pass, the impedance increases with decreasing frequency near the crossover frequency.
Both together can then lead to an impedance peak (to simplify matters, the impedance phase frequency responses has been omitted).

View attachment 326622
Yes you ara right. There is no dip in the CB nearfield response. The 2 peaks in the impedance curve are the 2 resonating freq of each ways. Very weird peaks though...
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,708
Likes
241,454
Location
Seattle Area
His Clio vs a Klippel NFS, did he seriously say this to you? :facepalm:
He did indeed. He had said in a video I think that he thinks Klippel NFS just makes a bunch of measurements that it then averages so can't possibly be accurate. It was a really bad time for him to bring this up seeing how his gated measurements by necessity stop at 200 Hz so he would have never seen the serious problem in this speaker.
 

Matt_Holland

Active Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2023
Messages
259
Likes
433
Apologies if this has been mentioned but I only read the first page. The woofer response looks like it could be caused by the passive low pass network having too low an attempted roll off frequency. This has two potential effects. The first being is it combines badly with the woofers self inductance creating a peak. The second, and more likely, is that it is massively changing the drivers electrical Q factor which means it will need to be in a much larger box to achieve the same driver/box Q as it would if there was no low-pass in-line. The response looks like the driver is in far too small a box.

It would have been interesting to measure the driver response up close in two alternative setups. First: in the box but with no low-pass connected. Second: out box with no low-pass connected.
 

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,358
Likes
6,885
Location
San Francisco
Yikes... there's no excuse for that bass peak. It's like +7ish dB. You could easily hear it by ear, no need for a Klippel or even nearfield measurements to catch that one. Did he at least run a sweep and LISTEN to it before selling this thing? Good lord.
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,835
Likes
4,781
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
Apologies if this has been mentioned but I only read the first page. The woofer response looks like it could be caused by the passive low pass network having too low an attempted roll off frequency. This has two potential effects. The first being is it combines badly with the woofers self inductance creating a peak. The second, and more likely, is that it is massively changing the drivers electrical Q factor which means it will need to be in a much larger box to achieve the same driver/box Q as it would if there was no low-pass in-line. The response looks like the driver is in far too small a box.

It would have been interesting to measure the driver response up close in two alternative setups. First: in the box but with no low-pass connected. Second: out box with no low-pass connected.
So it can be, plus maybe other things too. It is probably possible to get them in a better way BUT that means building new boxes, which then comes to a question of more or less basically building a new speaker. A program to measure T/S parameters is needed, to know what you have to work with.


Seems to work with REW too:


But before you do that, you should probably ask yourself the question why do it? There are so many other fun DIYs you can do.:)
 

Matt_Holland

Active Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2023
Messages
259
Likes
433
So it can be, plus maybe other things too. It is probably possible to get them in a better way BUT that means building new boxes, which then comes to a question of more or less basically building a new speaker. A program to measure T/S parameters is needed, to know what you have to work with.


Seems to work with REW too:


But before you do that, you should probably ask yourself the question why do it?

The T/S parameters need to be measured with the proposed filter in line.

But essentially this is a complete junk design by the looks of it. Not just the bass peak.
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,835
Likes
4,781
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
The T/S parameters need to be measured with the proposed filter in line.

But essentially this is a complete junk design by the looks of it. Not just the bass peak.
The only thing I can think of , and also rather pointless, is if anyone has this speaker, has some DIY knowledge and measuring equipment plus some spare time and a hobby small carpentry shop to fix a new speaker box with the drivers in it. BUT, is it really worth sacrificing time and materials on the drivers in this speaker, hmm? o_O
Compared to build with better, even cheaper, drivers, better design and so on.

Not DIY interested. Sell the junk and buy something else.:)
 
Top Bottom