4K player purchase question

[Laserjock]

Wondering what the TV optical output would deliver?

 

[-Matt-]

Wondering what the TV optical output would deliver?

I think optical SPDIF is limited to Dolby Digital 5.1 (I.e. can't do lossless TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio), so it is better to use HDMI eARC if possible.

 

[MacCali]

I second this.

No need for an expensive player these days. You can send CD audio from a cheap player via digital either to your AVR (hdmi) or via one of your existing DACs (optical) to your stereo system. The digital connection will be effectively totally lossless. I think you may have been becoming confused by looking at measurements for the analogue audio outputs of CD players - these all become irrelevant if using a digital output.

Personally I'd ditch the separate stereo and also run CD through the AVR in order to benefit from room EQ and bass management. (I think the drop in SINAD is worth it, others may not agree).

The same is pretty much true for video. There is not much point in paying extra for the video processing in an expensive player these days. The processing in your TV is likely to be as good and if you don't know what you are doing with tone mapping you can really mess up your colour calibration. All of the signals sent to your TV will end up going through its internal processing anyway, so why duplicate this at the player end?

So, I'm sort of suggesting that you could simplify your system quite a bit, sell a bunch of stuff then invest that into the main parts. I.e. HDMI 2.1 TV and AVR, main speakers, subs and a cheaper universal disc player. (I dont think the AVM 70 has HDMI 2.1 by the way).

I understand that you may already be quite far along a different road, so feel free to ignore the above. I'm just offering some food for thought and trying to save you from spending in an area that I think is unlikely to yield much improvement in quality.

I second this.

No need for an expensive player these days. You can send CD audio from a cheap player via digital either to your AVR (hdmi) or via one of your existing DACs (optical) to your stereo system. The digital connection will be effectively totally lossless. I think you may have been becoming confused by looking at measurements for the analogue audio outputs of CD players - these all become irrelevant if using a digital output.

Personally I'd ditch the separate stereo and also run CD through the AVR in order to benefit from room EQ and bass management. (I think the drop in SINAD is worth it, others may not agree).

The same is pretty much true for video. There is not much point in paying extra for the video processing in an expensive player these days. The processing in your TV is likely to be as good, and if you don't know what you are doing with tone mapping you can really mess up your colour calibration. All of the signals sent to your TV will end up going through its internal processing anyway, so why duplicate this at the player end?

So, I'm sort of suggesting that you could simplify your system quite a bit, sell a bunch of stuff then invest that into the main parts. I.e. HDMI 2.1 TV and AVR, main speakers, subs and a cheaper universal disc player. (I dont think the AVM 70 has HDMI 2.1 by the way).

I understand that you may already be quite far along a different road, so feel free to ignore the above. I'm just offering some food for thought and trying to save you from spending in an area that I think is unlikely to yield much improvement in quality.

I think it does support hdmi 2.1, it has 4k/120 capability. I maybe wrong, but the ps5 and new xbox tout that 4k/120 over 2.1, so I think it is the same.

Alright I guess this will be the final question, not sure really what I want to do as revelations keep occurring. The hdr processing isn't going to help basically, so seems like it's just a quiet bdp with a cd player. Does the 9000 do 4k/120, I am not seeing any confirmations, clearly it does 4k/60 and my AVR does 4k 60. Maybe I can just feed the avr audio and at least get the extra frames

If not what player does do 4k/120? Maybe another way to look at it is does it have hdmi 2.1?

Every time I am going to buy something new with audio I get a major headache x_x

 

[voodooless]

If not what player does do 4k/120?

What media on a disc does 4K/120?

 

[-Matt-]

What media on a disc does 4K/120?

Yes, only 4k 120Hz content I'm aware of is gaming.

 

[-Matt-]

I think it does support hdmi 2.1, it has 4k/120 capability. I maybe wrong, but the ps5 and new xbox tout that 4k/120 over 2.1, so I think it is the same.

I was going based on this info on their website...

Anthem® | AVM Series | AVM 70 | Overview

www.anthemav.com

It is possible that they have subsequently updated their hdmi board but I'd definitely check before buying one.

 

[MacCali]

What media on a disc does 4K/120?

No clue, that's why I asked. Sounds good though, guess the AVM 70 is strictly for gamers. If I recall it does 4k120, thought that was for bd's

Edit: Maybe it was the 90? @-Matt-

"Feel the power of every frame with the AVM 90 and its advanced 8K HDMI 2.1 Platform with HDCP 2.3. Showcasing 7 dedicated 8K inputs that support 8K/60Hz or 4K/120Hz"

I must retreat to the bat cave and ponder

No actual cd player/transport suggestions? like specific models

 

[GXAlan]

Damn... this is actually even more bad news. Cause my TV is super bright and it's "HDR Real Scene Peak Brightness" is 1287 nits. So the HDR optimizer according to the reviewer is basically far less noticeable with bright tvs

Definitely less noticeable. I have the x940E which does 1,184 cd/m² HDR real scene and I still thing it’s helpful. Sony clips for content above what it can display. If yours is a Sony, then 1300-4000 nits is displayed identically and HDR optimizer can help.

If you have a Samsung, you don’t need Dolby Vision. I don’t know how Samsung tone maps in that region. But then the Sony players are good because you don’t need Dolby vision and gives you SACD playback. The Panasonic UB-450 gives you cheap options too.

 

[Laserjock]

I think optical SPDIF is limited to Dolby Digital 5.1 (I.e. can't do lossless TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio), so it is better to use HDMI eARC if possible.

I meant for the CD playback to the outboard DAC. I guess it wouldn’t matter since It would be an optical connection from the player or TV and would be one cable either way.

Remember to use the analog input from your DAC to the analog in on the Marantz and use Pure Direct if you Want a pure analog signal. (You’ll lose room correction and subwoofer integration though)

 

[MacCali]

Definitely less noticeable. I have the x940E which does 1,184 cd/m² HDR real scene and I still thing it’s helpful. Sony clips for content above what it can display. If yours is a Sony, then 1300-4000 nits is displayed identically and HDR optimizer can help.

If you have a Samsung, you don’t need Dolby Vision. I don’t know how Samsung tone maps in that region. But then the Sony players are good because you don’t need Dolby vision and gives you SACD playback. The Panasonic UB-450 gives you cheap options too.

Isn't the 820 better than the 450? or the 450 has no dolby vision? think the 820 would be better no clue what the future holds.

But I do have my eyes set on that QD-OLED, so looks like I will probably be sticking to samsung.

Basically got to distinguish a lot of crap and decide. The only thing keeping me to that 9000 is the cd function, cause whatever the price maybe you must subtract the value of the cd player from it, that's just the way I look at it. If that cd player is 300 and the unit is 700 for bd function than basically everything else is in that range too roughly

 

[MacCali]

Hmmmm @Laserjock 's last comment just made me realize maybe what you guys are saying......... are you suggesting to just get any bd player with digital out and then feed my dac and basically making the analog outs worthless on the 9000?????

LOL sorry that just shined on me, wasn't sure if that is the point

Edit: Also, if that is the case. Do all the digital outs work on all these players at the same time? lets say I wanted to watch a bd concert, can I feed the tv HDMI and spdif out to my stereo dac?

 

[MRC01]

While we're on the subject, is there a player that:
1. Plays CDs to SPDIF digital outputs
2. Decodes HDCD and emits the decoded version to SPDIF digital outputs
3. Plays DVD-A to SPDIF digital outputs natively without conversion, from 44 to 192 kHz in 24-bit stereo
4. Plays SACD to SPDIF digital outputs, optionally preserving DSD or converting to "equivalent" PCM
5. Plays DVD and BluRay movies at 4k to HDMI

My Oppo BDP 83 does all except (5) at 4k -- it doesn't support 4k, and it has both HDMI and component (analog) video output. If and when it ever dies, I need to replace it with ... something ... ?

 

[-Matt-]

No actual cd player/transport suggestions? like specific models

Sorry, will have to let other members advise on this I've not been checking the reviews on these but basically any cheap player will likely do. Just pick one that you like the interface for.

I meant for the CD playback to the outboard DAC. I guess it wouldn’t matter since It would be an optical connection from the player or TV and would be one cable either way.

Yes, could be an option, especially if the universal disk player lacks optical out and you really want an external DAC. Edit: you may need to check compatibility (I know for example that my TV cannot pass-through DTS audio).

Remember to use the analog input from your DAC to the analog in on the Marantz and use Pure Direct if you Want a pure analog signal. (You’ll lose room correction and subwoofer integration though)

I thought others might disagree! As I said I'd probably just connect as follows....

Player >hdmi> AVR >hdmi> TV

(Use the AVR internal DAC even for CD, and take advantage of EQ). Up to the OP which way they prefer - I think their first thoughts were more along the external DAC method.

Hmmmm @Laserjock 's last comment just made me realize maybe what you guys are saying......... are you suggesting to just get any bd player with digital out and then feed my dac and basically making the analog outs worthless on the 9000?????

LOL sorry that just shined on me, wasn't sure if that is the point

Yes, sorry, that is what I'm suggesting! Of course it may not be the way you want to go.

 

[MacCali]

Sorry, will have to let other members advise on this I've not been checking the reviews on these but basically any cheap player will likely do. Just pick one that you like the interface for.



Yes, could be an option, especially if the universal disk player lacks optical out and you really want an external DAC.


I thought others might disagree! As I said I'd probably just connect as follows....

Player >hdmi> AVR >hdmi> TV

(Use the AVR internal DAC even for CD, and take advantage of EQ). Up to the OP which way they prefer - I think their first thoughts were more along the external DAC method.


Yes, sorry, that is what I'm suggesting! Of course it may not be the way you want to go.

Hmmmm, but now doesn't that go back to the same issue I am having for the transport? what's the internal clock on source, is it going to produce low jitter?

That would probably change things to, I know you guys will hate this but the 1100es or 820 lol

 

[Laserjock]

Hmmmm, but now doesn't that go back to the same issue I am having for the transport? what's the internal clock on source, is it going to produce low jitter?

That would probably change things to, I know you guys will hate this but the 1100es or 820 lol

Try the 820? You’ll probably be more than satisfied

 

[-Matt-]

Hmmmm, but now doesn't that go back to the same issue I am having for the transport? what's the internal clock on source, is it going to produce low jitter?

I think jitter is going to be a total non-issue. My understanding is that your DAC or the DAC in your avr will have a buffer for the audio signal that comes in over hdmi. The timing jitter on the output signal is therefore determined by the DAC, not by the player.

 

[MacCali]

Irrationality tells me I should buy both

 

[-Matt-]

Irrationality tells me I should buy both

Had a quick search for those model numbers... What features does the Panasonic DP-UB820 offer that you wouldn't get with the cheaper DP-UB450?

Edit: Looking at the specs the 820 does seem quite a bit nicer, with both hdmi and optical output. With the 450 you could probably still connect an external dac via the coax socket, but not certain on that.

 

[Laserjock]

Irrationality tells me I should buy both

I was thinking you were talking about the Sony 800

 

[JeffS7444]

Would a SPDIF or TOSLINK digital output be satisfactory? That would allow you to use any high-SINAD, balanced DAC of your choice. Even my Sony UBP-X700 has an SPDIF output. Not much concerned about jitter from the transport, because even output were jittery, my DAC incorporates ASRC-type circuitry, so data is de-jittered. DACs with balanced outputs are pretty common these days, whereas UHD disk players with same are scarce, and they command top dollar.

Out of curiosity, I popped a CD into my X700, and perhaps anticipating that the user might not care to fire up the TV set just to listen to music, it bypassed built-in apps and went directly to music playback, and all I had to do is press Play. Primary downside with a lower-priced player like mine is lack of any display or navigation controls on the unit itself, so if you misplace the remote or the batteries go dead, I guess you'll have to find something else to do.