How do I bring top quality audio to my TV system

[Echolane]

Looking for a good solution to bring top quality audio to my TV system


I am a two-channel audiophile and it looks like I will have to replace the tube amp I have been using in my TV system because it needs an expensive repair and it’s 26 years old and may not be worth repairing. Ideally I’d like to buy an AVR but my experience suggests AVRs are limited in the quality audio engineering and parts that are devoted to their audio side. One salesman I spoke with told me to forget good audio in an AVR because manufacturers have to pay so much in the way of royalties to the zillion video codecs that there is little left over to devote to top notch audio.

Why am I so demanding of good audio? Because most of my TV watching is devoted to watching or streaming opera or other music programming.

I bought an almost $4000 2 channel AVR some years ago that was promoted as the audiophile’s answer to good tv audio. It had really dreadful audio! Really dreadful. I left it in place connected via HDMI to all my 5 video sources. That maintained the ease of switching sources and then I routed RCA interconnects between the analog outs on my video source components to my tube amplifier. It worked great! I was happy with this situation although I didn’t like to think about how much I paid for the AVR to turn it into just a video switching device. Then that AVR died and I didn’t want to repair it. I bought some cheap HDMI switches but I ran into various problems. I’m now using my TV for video switching which I really dislike. It is really clumsy and I’m spoiled by the ease of switching sources with an AVR. And now my precious tube amp which makes great audio for me needs an expensive repair and is presenting me with a major decision. Do I repair a 26 year old amplifier that’s worth less than the cost of repairing it?

This brings me to the point of this post: is there an AVR with decent audio I can buy? I got really interested in a $599.00 Marantz AVR. The Crutchfield salesman I spoke with said it had great audio. And then I read Amir’s report on it. It was almost the worst AVR he had ever tested! Considering its cost I shouldn’t be surprised, but sadly everything gets way more expensive to buy from that appealing $599 price tag. I don’t want to spend a lot for all those amplifiers and audio codecs I’ll never use. Any suggestions for me?

I should add more about my system here.
I have a 65” Sony 4K TV circa 2022.
Sony SS-NA5ES Speakers
DISH network DVR
Audio Alchemy Preamp and DAC with optical feed to the TV
OPPO UDP-205 DVD player
ROKU Ultra Streamer
Sony CLD-99 Laser Disc player (s-video converted to HDMI
Panasonic DMR ES46V DVD/VHS Player Composite video connected to TV or optional converter to HDMI
The tube amp that has failed is an Audiomat Arpege. It is fixable but is it worth fixing?

 

[Galliardist]

Depending on your TV, optical out to a normal DAC, to amp and speakers will work fine. I use my SACD player that way at the moment, but previously had a very cheap DAC that was plenty good enough for broadcast TV.

Before going further, the usual applies - you need to list your sources, TV, speakers and the amp concerned. Answers to questions like this are usually specific to the components and programme material concerned.

 

[Echolane]

Depending on your TV, optical out to a normal DAC, to amp and speakers will work fine. I use my SACD player that way at the moment, but previously had a very cheap DAC that was plenty good enough for broadcast TV.

Before going further, the usual applies - you need to list your sources, TV, speakers and the amp concerned. Answers to questions like this are usually specific to the components and programme material concerned.

I’ve added my sources to my original message. Hope that helps.

I wish I could attach my speakers to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 preamp and DAC. If only! Because I could get pretty darn good audio that way!! The DDP-1 gets superlative reviews. Unfortunately, it has no speaker connections, it is not an amplifier. .

 

[Galliardist]

I’ve added my sources to my original message. Hope that helps.

It occurs to me that I could attach my speakers to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 preamp and DAC and I could get pretty darn good audio that way!! The DDP-1 gets superlative reviews so I will definitely give it a try and see if that might work. Thank you for mentioning your DAC, because you gave me one of those Aha moments as to the possibilities of my DAC; using it that way just never occurred to me.

This doesn’t solve the problem I have using the TV as a video switching device but if your suggestion works, and I think it ought to work, I just might have to put up with the TV as my switching device. I wish the HDMI switches I kept buying and failing were better quality.

I rarely use streaming services, so can't guarantee what comes out of some of them and the apps in stereo. I get decent broadcast TV sound and from YouTube and the free streaming services from the local broadcasters, though.

I'm sure someone here can recommend a better HDMI switcher for you. I'm not sure where you should post that request here though to get best response.

Regarding the amp - I'm not sure how repairable it is, if it's not the "reference" model, as some parts became unavailable according to posts in other forums. I can't find any measurements or reliable details, only subjective reviews. A more powerful amp may be advisable for those Sony speakers (often the case) than the 30w/channel the amp apparently provides.

Even broken, the amp will still have some value used as it's still favoured in parts of the subjective community. It may even be worth more fixed than the value of the fix, if sold in the right place. Without numbers or experience of the amp, I can't really say more.

 

[eric-c]

Why don't you just get a new power amp to replace the tube amp that just died? That way everything else stays the same which I trust you are familiar and happy with.

 

[Galliardist]

I’ve added my sources to my original message. Hope that helps.

I wish I could attach my speakers to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 preamp and DAC. If only! Because I could get pretty darn good audio that way!! The DDP-1 gets superlative reviews. Unfortunately, it has no speaker connections, it is not an amplifier. .

I should have added that you could get active speakers to replace both the Sony speakers and the tube amp.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na5es-loudspeaker-measurements for the speakers. They don't look too bad, but I have never been a fan of multiple tweeters in otherwise conventional loudspeakers. The Sonys are also a bit odd in having a low specified maximum input power (70W) for a fairly recent and relatively insensitive model. Still, we're getting into serious money to replace all of that, and a decent 70W power amp (or slightly more would still be safe) would get you going again.

 

[popej]

Ideally I’d like to buy an AVR but my experience suggests AVRs are limited in the quality audio engineering and parts that are devoted to their audio side. One salesman I spoke with told me to forget good audio in an AVR because manufacturers have to pay so much in the way of royalties to the zillion video codecs that there is little left over to devote to top notch audio.

Have you actually checked prices? IMO prices for similar receiver stereo and multichannel are comparable. You either pay for licenses and redundant channels or you pay higher margin for manufacturer and your friendly salesman.

For good sound important are speakers and their placement, room characteristic, room correction and eq. If you are looking for electronics only, then probably good digital room correction would give the most gain. And the most cost effective solution would be an AVR.

 

[Echolane]

I should have added that you could get active speakers to replace both the Sony speakers and the tube amp.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na5es-loudspeaker-measurements for the speakers. They don't look too bad, but I have never been a fan of multiple tweeters in otherwise conventional loudspeakers. The Sonys are also a bit odd in having a low specified maximum input power (70W) for a fairly recent and relatively insensitive model. Still, we're getting into serious money to replace all of that, and a decent 70W power amp (or slightly more would still be safe) would get you going again

Active speakers is an idea that never occurred to me. Interesting. But my Sony speakers were unusually expensive and I’m not inclined to replace them. I became quite infatuated with owning them. I discovered them after Sony had stopped production so the only way to own them was to buy used. Even used, they were expensive. A Sony audio engineer was given a blank check so to speak to design them. If you were to read the many reviews you might understand why I was seduced into buying them and why I wouldn’t easily move on from them. . One reviewer called them “a masterpiece”. I can’t say my experience of them is that of a “masterpiece., but they are quite good and beautifully made.

I do have a very well regarded Adcom GFA 555II amplifier sitting unused but in need of a repair. I also have a Musical Fidelity A3cr preamp sitting unused that I used together with the Adcom for my computer sound system. Both were extremely well regarded in their day. I suppose they would be considered vintage now but I think both might compete pretty well with today’s audio gear but to put the Adcom to work I have to repair it. Nothing is ever simple. But tomorrow I will be asking my usual repair fellow if he’d be willing to take a look at it and see if it is an easy repair.

 

[Keith_W]

That Audiomat Arpege looks pretty simple.

It is either the valves or the capacitors that have failed. I presume that you have replaced all the valves? If the valves are known to be OK, the next step would be to test the capacitors. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could order replacement capacitors of the same value and replace them yourself.

 

[Echolane]

is either the valves or the capacitors that have failed. I presume that you have replaced all the valves? If the valves are known to be OK, the next step would be to test the capacitors. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could order replacement capacitors of the same value and replace them yourself.

I put a new valve in the spot where the failure occurred and turned the unit on. Within a very few minutes, the replacement valve was putting out way more heat than the other three. In addition, the light that glows was approximately four times larger in diameter than the light in the other three valves. So there is some other failure. I do wish I had the capability to test it and repair it, but I’m an 85 year old female with poor eyesight and it just isn’t going to happen. I’m taking the Audiomat in to my repair fellow along with the Adcom to see which is the better choice to repair. I love the Audiomat but it weighs 60 pounds and since my husband died I don’t have a man around the house to do the heavy lifting. It would make more sense

 

[Keith_W]

My condolences for your loss. And BTW congratulations on being so sharp at your age, I come across many people >80 in my line of work and most of them would not be listening to hifi at home or know how to put a system together. I hope to be doing the same by the time I reach 85 ... or if I reach 85.

 

[Galliardist]

Active speakers is an idea that never occurred to me. Interesting. But my Sony speakers were unusually expensive and I’m not inclined to replace them. I became quite infatuated with owning them. I discovered them after Sony had stopped production so the only way to own them was to buy used. Even used, they were expensive. A Sony audio engineer was given a blank check so to speak to design them. If you were to read the many reviews you might understand why I was seduced into buying them and why I wouldn’t easily move on from them. . One reviewer called them “a masterpiece”. I can’t say my experience of them is that of a “masterpiece., but they are quite good and beautifully made.

I do have a very well regarded Adcom GFA 555II amplifier sitting unused but in need of a repair. I also have a Musical Fidelity A3cr preamp sitting unused that I used together with the Adcom for my computer sound system. Both were extremely well regarded in their day. I suppose they would be considered vintage now but I think both might compete pretty well with today’s audio gear but to put the Adcom to work I have to repair it. Nothing is ever simple. But tomorrow I will be asking my usual repair fellow if he’d be willing to take a look at it and see if it is an easy repair.

I had a further look into your speakers, and found a technical explanation of the three tweeters in Sony's other model that used them:

Sony SS-NA2ES loudspeaker

www.stereophile.com

I see why they would intrigue people, and they probably also really look the part - so I understand why you would want to keep them!

From what I can make out, the Audiomat (still don't have a technical review) is actually a pretty low distortion amp as well for a valve model. I'll put my reservations to one side and presume that the combination would sound pretty good, well worth keeping if you can get the amp repaired, good luck!

 

[dualazmak]

Just for your reference,,,

If your PC (or Mac) has TV viewing capability (access to optical TV channel by such TV-tuner software), I would like to suggest connecting your TV as "second PC monitor (of 4K resolution?)" with one slim HDMI cable for visual use only and you would process all the audio by your existing PC-DSP-based audio system.

I discussed this approach in my post here, and you can find my latest system setup (including Panasonic 55-inch OLED TV as second PC monitor) here on my project thread.

 

[Peterinvan]

Looking for a good solution to bring top quality audio to my TV system


I am a two-channel audiophile and it looks like I will have to replace the tube amp I have been using in my TV system because it needs an expensive repair and it’s 26 years old and may not be worth repairing. Ideally I’d like to buy an AVR but my experience suggests AVRs are limited in the quality audio engineering and parts that are devoted to their audio side. One salesman I spoke with told me to forget good audio in an AVR because manufacturers have to pay so much in the way of royalties to the zillion video codecs that there is little left over to devote to top notch audio.

Why am I so demanding of good audio? Because most of my TV watching is devoted to watching or streaming opera or other music programming.

I bought an almost $4000 2 channel AVR some years ago that was promoted as the audiophile’s answer to good tv audio. It had really dreadful audio! Really dreadful. I left it in place connected via HDMI to all my 5 video sources. That maintained the ease of switching sources and then I routed RCA interconnects between the analog outs on my video source components to my tube amplifier. It worked great! I was happy with this situation although I didn’t like to think about how much I paid for the AVR to turn it into just a video switching device. Then that AVR died and I didn’t want to repair it. I bought some cheap HDMI switches but I ran into various problems. I’m now using my TV for video switching which I really dislike. It is really clumsy and I’m spoiled by the ease of switching sources with an AVR. And now my precious tube amp which makes great audio for me needs an expensive repair and is presenting me with a major decision. Do I repair a 26 year old amplifier that’s worth less than the cost of repairing it?

This brings me to the point of this post: is there an AVR with decent audio I can buy? I got really interested in a $599.00 Marantz AVR. The Crutchfield salesman I spoke with said it had great audio. And then I read Amir’s report on it. It was almost the worst AVR he had ever tested! Considering its cost I shouldn’t be surprised, but sadly everything gets way more expensive to buy from that appealing $599 price tag. I don’t want to spend a lot for all those amplifiers and audio codecs I’ll never use. Any suggestions for me?

I should add more about my system here.
I have a 65” Sony 4K TV circa 2022.
Sony SS-NA5ES Speakers
DISH network DVR
Audio Alchemy Preamp and DAC with optical feed to the TV
OPPO UDP-205 DVD player
ROKU Ultra Streamer
Sony CLD-99 Laser Disc player (s-video converted to HDMI
Panasonic DMR ES46V DVD/VHS Player Composite video connected to TV or optional converter to HDMI
The tube amp that has failed is an Audiomat Arpege. It is fixable but is it worth fixing?

I am very happy with my Onkyo 9110 2.1 amp, if you can still find one. It is known for it’s quality components and sound quality. Very good value for money

 

[Echolane]

My condolences for your loss. And BTW congratulations on being so sharp at your age, I come across many people >80 in my line of work and most of them would not be listening to hifi at home or know how to put a system together. I hope to be doing the same by the time I reach 85 ... or if I reach 85.

Thanks for your condolences. Since my husband’s death two years ago, I’ve practically lived in front of my music system. Music has helped, that’s for sure. I’ve enjoyed putting together music systems since I was a teenager. I’ve got four complete stereo systems in my five room house. Sadly, I’ve never learned much about fixing anything.

Here’s to you reaching 85!

 

[Echolane]

I am very happy with my Onkyo 9110 2.1 amp, if you can still find one. It is known for it’s quality components and sound quality. Very good value for money

Thanks much for the tip on an Onkyo, but luckily, my long time go to fellow for repairs, who has been incredibly busy for the last couple of years, has kindly agreed to fit me in and look at my Adcom GFA 535II Amplifier tomorrow. If it can be repaired for less than my tube amp, it would be a better choice for me to go on with. A tube amp is really not ideal for a TV system, but my real reason for considering it, is that i Can manage it’s weight if something goes wrong whereas the Arpege weighs a hefty 60 pounds.

 

[Echolane]

Final Report… my Audiomat Arpege tube amp has been repaired and I’ve decided to keep using it in my TV system. It sounds really good and will continue to sound better and better for awhile. It actually cost me more than estimated because the small tubes had to be replaced as well as all the large output tubes. But my wonderful repair guy put in some really special tubes as substitutes for the native 12AX7 tubes. The input was fitted with a JJ ECC83S from 25 years ago and two reissue Mullard CV4004 were used as drivers. The vintage Adcom amplifier I had considered using will instead pair with my equally vintage Musical Fidelity A3cr preamplifier and will provide music at my desktop computer. I will sell my vintage Pioneer SX-1050 stereo amplifier which has been at my computer.

 

[Galliardist]

All's well that ends well!