1 bit DAC launched by TOPPING

[192kbps]

TOPPING IEM, named "Hana"
View attachment 355223

View attachment 355224

Sorry, it's “Hane".
Four physical switches for a total of sixteen tunings.

 

[sweetchaos]

Finally PEQ support.

Our complains have been answered.

 

[192kbps]

With IEMs, of course, there are also headphones. With audio interfaces, of course there will be microphones, and there will also be better audio interfaces. After all this, let us look forward to Topping speakers.

Speaker prototyping has begun.

 

[solderdude]

The new 1-bit DAC looks very nice. The conversion module has a lot of components for a 1-bit DAC.

Could it be multiple concurrent 1-bit DAC followed by summing all the outputs?

I am looking forward to seeing the measurements…

Maybe the PCM is handled with discrete R2R (or some derivative) maybe even OS a few times and DSD is handled by a separate section (or just the MSB) ?

 

[Vladetz]

Speaker prototyping has begun.

What about portable dongles?

 

[sweetchaos]

Speaker prototyping has begun.

Very nice.

Current list of China-based speaker companies is aweful to say the least.

(Photo from my List of Speaker companies from around the world)

 

[Vladetz]

Very nice.

Current list of China-based speaker companies is aweful to say the least.

(Photo from my List of Speaker companies from around the world)

Anyway most of midrange models from european brands are manufactured in China with very high quality

 

[Mnyb]

Lets se how the products actually perform, I let it slip that they pander to to the audiophiles if the products perform.

It’s strange market you can not alienate 99% of you customers so the marketing material is a bit *cough* bs *cough*
Not unique to Topping .

If they sacrifice actual performance and implementation of for example PEQ for this one bit thing , then they crossed to the other side ?

 

[192kbps]

What about portable dongles?

They are unwilling to make such a product.

 

[Sokel]

Lets se how the products actually perform, I let it slip that they pander to to the audiophiles if the products perform.

It’s strange market you can not alienate 99% of you customers so the marketing material is a bit *cough* bs *cough*
Not unique to Topping .

If they sacrifice actual performance and implementation of for example PEQ for this one bit thing , then they crossed to the other side ?

Yep.
It can't be on two boats.

It can either be the real thing like Holo (who is considered entry level minus) or the way they already are,there's no middle ground to it if they want to penetrate to this market.I f they wanted to be cheap they should start as expensive and then would look like a bargain.

A different brand name may be useful too,as SMSL did.
They better stick to where they are and offer the full package people here want.

 

[Sokel]

Data is data. Bits are bits. As a recently retired software developer I can state that it is more of a pain to recombine an incoming stream of bits and deal with a lot of bit twiddling than to deal with bytes and words of data.

The only time dealing with 1 bit at a time makes sense is when you need to monitor something that is on or off or setting some condition. If we need 16 bits to represent a sample of the audio, then give us 16 bits. Or 24 if we are recording the audio and need to modify it.

There is no benefit to complicating a job like this by requiring extra steps. Just because something can be done this way doesn't make it a good idea or beneficial in any way.

Sampling millions of times per second like DSD is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard of. Very inefficient and just a ton of wasted data. Does everyone understand that DSD has to be converted to PCM to actually do anything useful with it? Working with it in PCM format and then saving it back to DSD never accomplished anything and can't improve the sound.

CD quality sampling at 16/44.1 means you are getting a 16 bit sample 44.1 thousand times per second. There is no useful data between those samples since we only need to capture frequencies that humans can actually hear and discard the rest. That is a solved problem.

Does the 1 bit processing somehow improve filtering? No. We can already filter out all the unwanted noise to a point way below audibility. 1 bit is a fraction of a useful sample and has to be combined with a series of other bits to represent a moment of time. 1 bit only allows you to say move the sample up or down by 1. Yes, you can do that millions of times per second but you gain nothing by doing it that way.

This looks like a gimmick designed to appeal to audiophools. Snake oil. People like PS Audio are probably already fast at work on their own version of this since Paul believes DSD is somehow better than PCM.

I already said,it's not the format.
We shouldn't care about the format.

What I do care for though is raw performance and in the case of the DUT in the thread I quoted (and some others as people suggest) DSD gets way nicer results.
It's on Khadas's or ESS's side (or whoever implements) to make sure either are fine so one can choose.

I could even argue on audibility but at some levels test shows that could be audible or dangerously close.
That's the value of measuring everything,one can know and decide.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

If we can finally have a DAC with 10 band Peq at an affordable price it would finally be real progress

The WiiM Pro Plus streamer has 4 band, but WiiM have announced they’re upping it to 10, and including room correction. It has been measured as transparent and costs only £220.

Topping are playing catch up.

 

[Sokel]

The WiiM Pro Plus streamer has 4 band, but WiiM have announced they’re upping it to 10, and including room correction. It has been measured as transparent and costs only £220.

Topping are playing catch up.

Not comparable,different type of devices.
But even performance-wise, if Topping sticks to the number chasing won't be higher than -115db THD+N.
So,115db vs 87db SINAD is abysmal.
Price won't be comparable too I imagine,probably close to one grand if I have learned Topping's policy by now.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Not comparable,different type of devices.
But even performance-wise, if Topping sticks to the number chasing won't be higher than -115db THD+N.
So,115db vs 87db SINAD is abysmal.
Price won't be comparable too I imagine,probably close to one grand if I have learned Topping's policy by now.

I was responding to:

“If we can finally have a DAC with 10 band Peq at an affordable price it would finally be real progress”

The WiiM Pro Plus is a DAC with (upcoming) 10 band PEQ. You get a streamer thrown in for free! But you can use it just as a DAC.

Right now, if you want a transparent DAC with 10 band PEQ, and presuming WiiM manage to include this update, the Pro Plus is the only game in town, unless you want to spend silly money.

 

[Talisman]

The WiiM Pro Plus streamer has 4 band, but WiiM have announced they’re upping it to 10, and including room correction. It has been measured as transparent and costs only £220.

Topping are playing catch up.

I know it and I own a wiim mini which already has 4 peq bands. However it is not a DAC but a streamer, this function in a DAC, therefore applicable to all sources would be a real breakthrough. I need fix not only for streaming, but also for Bluetooth, CD player, TV audio etc

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I know it and I own a wiim mini which already has 4 peq bands. However it is not a DAC but a streamer, this function in a DAC, therefore applicable to all sources would be a real breakthrough. I need fix not only for streaming, but also for Bluetooth, CD player, TV audio etc

I believe the digital input on the Pro Plus can have the WiiM’s PEQ applied.

My apologies if that’s not correct.

 

[Talisman]

I believe the digital input on the Pro Plus can have the WiiM’s PEQ applied.

My apologies if that’s not correct.

It would seem so, but with only one toslink input and one analogue in which there would be a round of adc - dac. However, it actually seems to be going well already. Thank you

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

It would seem so, but with only one toslink input and one analogue in which there would be a round of adc - dac. However, it actually seems to be going well already. Thank you

It’s certainly the future. I wonder if any of these DACs has a subwoofer out?

 

[Thomas_A]

Technics SL-PG100 sounded bad as well. The flaws were above audibility threshold. Digital flaws - spurious frequencies. Especially at low level.

I remember a Technics MASH player where sound was chopped up somehow, audible when you listening to the common fading in the end of songs. Like that "robot-like speech" digital distortion.

 

[tcli]

The new 1-bit DAC looks very nice. The conversion module has a lot of components for a 1-bit DAC.

Could it be multiple concurrent 1-bit DAC followed by summing all the outputs?

It's very probably a DSD converter like the sygnalyst one : https://www.signalyst.com/hardware.htm

you can find on ebay these kind of board :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166340977045
that have a dual ladder : one for R2R and the other for DSD using the same design as the sygnalyst

All that isn't very new