1 bit DAC launched by TOPPING

[Matias]

1 bit delta-sigma modulator means DSD? Like PS Audio does, except Topping's DACs will measure a lot better.

Finally PEQ in their DACs, that is the most important news IMO.

Curious about the IEM too.

 

[mc.god]

TOPPING IEM, named "Hana"
View attachment 355223

View attachment 355224

It's very blurred, is it really "hana"? Tanchjim already used that name for a well known iem.

 

[MAB]

I don't get it.

I think 1-bit DAC is so we can get back to debates about audibility of jitter.

 

[Yasuo]

I love the looks of these new products...

 

[Talisman]

If we can finally have a DAC with 10 band Peq at an affordable price it would finally be real progress

 

[MCH]

You can plug-in 6 headphones at once. I assume the firmware allows you to adjust the volume individually but knobs would be more convenient.

Multi-output headphone amps are common in recording studios, radio stations, and other professional situations.

I also see multiple connector types so you don't need adapters to plug-in a headphone with different connectors.

That or aimed at people with 6 ears
Yes I have seen those before, with lots of knobs. This seems more like for people with many headphones as you point out. Doesn't seem practical to have to go through push button selection to change the volume and end up blowing your buddy's ears.
Maybe with different EQ settings for each output?

 

[Mnyb]

If we can finally have a DAC with 10 band Peq at an affordable price it would finally be real progress

Yes this is the killer feature

Nobody actually needs to change their DAC ( if the one you have works fine ) until this is common in all of them .

 

[Mikig]

View attachment 355241

PEQ is certainly of interest... although I expect they meant except there in brackets.


JSmith

Excuse me! I take advantage of the photo in your post!!

well, an R2R Dac with those numbers would be very interesting.
Usually those levels with that implementation are much lower. Things seen only with traditional DACs with ESS or AKM chips…

 

[Mikig]

so will we also have to wait for a new Pre90, R2R??

 

[Soria Moria]

Will they have more features such as crossfeed and loudness filters? They'd need that for me to ever consider changing from my RME.

 

[pma]

1 bit delta-sigma modulator means DSD? Like PS Audio does, except Topping's DACs will measure a lot better.

Finally PEQ in their DACs, that is the most important news IMO.

Curious about the IEM too.

1bit MASH DAC Technics - 1989

PDM, PWM, Delta-Sigma, 1-Bit DACs Peter W. Mitchell

Peter W. Mitchell wrote about MASH DACs in January 1990 (Vol.13 No.1):

www.stereophile.com

Review and Measurements of Technics SL-PG100 vintage CD player

Technics SL-PG100 This was my first CD player, bought in 1991. It is based on MN66271 1-bit MASH converter. It is incredible but it works flawlessly till nowadays. However, I never liked the sound of the unit and replaced it soon with SONY XA-2ES. Technics was also responsible for my initial...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Blockader]

I presume the "discrete" refers to the DAC and that the DAC is 'R2R', correct? ("Discrete" could also mean refer to substituting discrete circuitry for op amps in the analog stages.)

Sounds like Topping is pandering to audiphool trendiness.

The dac is not a R-2R dac but a 1-bit dac.

As a general rule, the fewer bits a DAC decodes at a time, the higher the oversampling rate needed to reach a high dynamic range

multi-bit dacs:
R-2R DACs can be designed to decode data without needing to oversample. The simplified explanation is that because they can handle 18-28 bits at a time, so they don't require delta-sigma modulators to clean up the quantization noise.

ESS/AKM DACs are also multi-bit DACs, but they use something called delta-sigma modulators to remove noise from the audible band. Since they decode only 4-5 bits at a time, they have to oversample to properly clean the quantization noise with their delta-sigma modulators. That's why they're known as delta-sigma DACs. They go through an extra phase after simple decoding to clear out the quantization noise. Perfectly matching the units in these delta-sigma modulators is one of the challenges in designing good multi-bit DS DACs

1-bit dacs.

1-bit DACs decode one bit at a time. Since they handle fewer bits at a time, they need VERY high oversampling rate to clear the noise from the audible band and boost the dynamic range. They must use a really complex oversampling algorithm to keep the dynamic range high.I remember vaguely that their output stage can be designed to be less non linear too for various reasons but for audio applications that doesn't matter.

all 1-bit dacs and ESS/AKM dacs are delta sigma dacs. R-2R dacs are ladder dacs.

Advantages of 1-bit dacs.

There's no publicly available, measured proof of the advantages of 1-bit DACs. Years ago, ESS released a presentation claiming that the non-linearities of delta-sigma modulators are audible. 1-bit DACs are said to possibly avoid this issue. Generally, it's believed they don't produce the non-PSS noise that ESS/AKM delta-sigma modulators do and they might have less noise floor modulation. But these points are still speculative. Despite this, it's actually tougher to design high-performing 1-bit DACs compared to, say, ESS DACs

Conclusion:

Chord specializes in designing 1-bit DACs. I think Topping wants to edge Chord out of the market with their new DAC. Topping leaves no room for the audiophile community to complain about the 'ESS glare' or the 'soft sound' associated with AKM. They've developed a completely discrete DAC that addresses all the common complaints audiophiles have about the perceived problems with the sound of AKM or ESS DACs which they claim ''these are not measurable with simple methods but we can hear them''.

Topping has already won over the hearts of evidence-based audiophiles. I think their new goal is to win over the 'I trust my ears' crowd.

About the claims of non-pss noise etc check this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/two-old-ess-talks.9216/

 

[Gringoaudio1]

1bit MASH DAC Technics - 1989

PDM, PWM, Delta-Sigma, 1-Bit DACs Peter W. Mitchell

Peter W. Mitchell wrote about MASH DACs in January 1990 (Vol.13 No.1):

www.stereophile.com

Review and Measurements of Technics SL-PG100 vintage CD player

Technics SL-PG100 This was my first CD player, bought in 1991. It is based on MN66271 1-bit MASH converter. It is incredible but it works flawlessly till nowadays. However, I never liked the sound of the unit and replaced it soon with SONY XA-2ES. Technics was also responsible for my initial...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I had a 1-bit one. One bit with 5 disc rotary player. My sound improved overnight when I replaced it. I know you’re not supposed to be able to hear the differences between DACs but it was bad. JVC I think.

 

[GXAlan]

I had a 1-bit one. One bit with 5 disc rotary player. My sound improved overnight when I replaced it. I know you’re not supposed to be able to hear the differences between DACs but it was bad. JVC I think.

That is probably more the analog stages or sighted bias. The JVC K2 era CD players measured well.

JVC XL-Z1050TN CD player Measurements

Sidebar 2: Measurements Fig.1 indicates a virtually ruler-flat frequency response, while in fig.2 the de-emphasis response indicates that no response-caused aberrations will be experienced with pre-emphasized discs. The fine squarewave response (fig.3) again is typical of a player with a...

www.stereophile.com

 

[pma]

I had a 1-bit one. One bit with 5 disc rotary player. My sound improved overnight when I replaced it. I know you’re not supposed to be able to hear the differences between DACs but it was bad. JVC I think.

Technics SL-PG100 sounded bad as well. The flaws were above audibility threshold. Digital flaws - spurious frequencies. Especially at low level.

 

[Sokel]

Excuse me! I take advantage of the photo in your post!!

well, an R2R Dac with those numbers would be very interesting.
Usually those levels with that implementation are much lower. Things seen only with traditional DACs with ESS or AKM chips…

Not necessarily:

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

The dac is not a R-2R dac but a 1-bit dac.

As a general rule, the fewer bits a DAC decodes at a time, the higher the oversampling rate needed to reach a high dynamic range

multi-bit dacs:
R-2R DACs can be designed to decode data without needing to oversample. The simplified explanation is that because they can handle 18-28 bits at a time, so they don't require delta-sigma modulators to clean up the quantization noise.

ESS/AKM DACs are also multi-bit DACs, but they use something called delta-sigma modulators to remove noise from the audible band. Since they decode only 4-5 bits at a time, they have to oversample to properly clean the quantization noise with their delta-sigma modulators. That's why they're known as delta-sigma DACs. They go through an extra phase after simple decoding to clear out the quantization noise. Perfectly matching the units in these delta-sigma modulators is one of the challenges in designing good multi-bit DS DACs

1-bit dacs.

1-bit DACs decode one bit at a time. Since they handle fewer bits at a time, they need VERY high oversampling rate to clear the noise from the audible band and boost the dynamic range. They must use a really complex oversampling algorithm to keep the dynamic range high.I remember vaguely that their output stage can be designed to be less non linear too for various reasons but for audio applications that doesn't matter.

all 1-bit dacs and ESS/AKM dacs are delta sigma dacs. R-2R dacs are ladder dacs.

Advantages of 1-bit dacs.

There's no publicly available, measured proof of the advantages of 1-bit DACs. Years ago, ESS released a presentation claiming that the non-linearities of delta-sigma modulators are audible. 1-bit DACs are said to possibly avoid this issue. Generally, it's believed they don't produce the non-PSS noise that ESS/AKM delta-sigma modulators do and they might have less noise floor modulation. But these points are still speculative. Despite this, it's actually tougher to design high-performing 1-bit DACs compared to, say, ESS DACs

Conclusion:

Chord specializes in creating 1-bit DACs. I think Topping wants to edge Chord out of the market with their new DAC. Topping leaves no room for the audiophile community to complain about the 'ESS glare' or the 'soft sound' associated with AKM. They've developed a completely discrete DAC that addresses all the common complaints audiophiles have about the perceived problems with the sound of AKM or ESS DACs which they claim ''these are not measurable with simple methods but we can hear them''.

Topping has already won over the hearts of evidence-based audiophiles. I think their new goal is to win over the 'I trust my ears' crowd.

About the claims of non-pss noise etc check this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/two-old-ess-talks.9216/

Actually chord is n bit Delta sigma. Aren't they?
Maybe I'm wrong

 

[Blockader]

Actually chord is n bit Delta sigma. Aren't they?
Maybe I'm wrong

They are delta sigma dacs.

 

[Gorgonzola]

I had a 1-bit one. One bit with 5 disc rotary player. My sound improved overnight when I replaced it. I know you’re not supposed to be able to hear the differences between DACs but it was bad. JVC I think.

I too had a 1-bit DAC, or so it claimed to be. That was a Technics SL-PS70 that I bought around 1991. It wasn't as good as later DACs that I've owned, but was a big improvement over the Yamaha CD-X1 I'd been using before, bought circa 1985, that had a very nasty treble.

 

[Dialectic]

1 bit delta-sigma modulator means DSD? Like PS Audio does, except Topping's DACs will measure a lot better.

Finally PEQ in their DACs, that is the most important news IMO.

Curious about the IEM too.

Topping does not have PSAudio's wacky bearded guy designing its 1-bit DAC, so I'm afraid it will be unable to compete.