Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[solderdude]

If I understand correctly - each acoustic's impedance drop while playback. I want to use pair of this amplifiers with my Heco Clear Revolution 9. My friend has similar acoustic and he wants this amplifiers too in mono mode. Heco says that it has 4-8 ohm impedance and I hope it is appropriate amplifiers for this application. Now I has Emotive HC-1 but I'm not satisfied with its detalization.

I don't see any benefits using 2 bridged LA90 instead of 2 XPA HC-1.

 

[anmpr1]

There's nothing wrong with a low power amplifier. You just hope that customers are aware of what they really need for their own use. That can be really tough to determine also, e.g. do I need my amp to handle music with 30dB crest factor when 99% of what I listen to is nothing like that? My preference is to go with overkill on amp power so as to not worry, but I understand others may feel differently.

So, if the amp is able to deliver 36 watts before clipping (at 8 ohms), and the LS50 meta sensitivity is around 83 dB...

We should always be thinking of a 'loudspeaker and amplifier' as a combo. A system, and not something separate, which we often tend to do.

For example, in one of my systems, the Topping would be more than adequate, since the loudspeaker is rated at over 100db/watt/meter. I'm using a 10 to 12 watt/ch amp with it now, and experience no problems.

In a secondary system, rated at around 93db/watt/meter (augmented with a powered sub crossed over at about 60Hz) the Topping would probably be OK, but I would want more, just because watts are a relatively cheap thing--in general they are cheaper than this Topping is willing to provide (albeit not with lower distortion specs). As far as I can tell, the only reason to buy the Topping would be for its distortion specs, or possibly its smallish form factor (if you don't mind the separate power supply).

In any decent amplifier you can buy, distortion is going to be too low to worry about. Power? A different thing. I'll trade lower distortion for significantly higher power, all other things considered. At similar price points, I'd definitely trade the Topping for a Vidar, and wouldn't think twice at trading two bridged Toppings for two bridged Vidars. Because of the power.

Would I trade two bridged Toppings for a single AHB2? For a lot of people that might be a tougher call, because of the price differential. I'd keep the Benchmark, if for no other reason than it's easier for me to deal with a domestic company than it is a Chinese company, should problems arise.

[Monetary consideration: two Vidars will save you two hundred dollars over two Toppings, and you'll go home with four times the power. Two Toppings will save you $1400.00 over one Benchmark for roughly the same power--not an inconsiderable amount, for sure.]

All that said, two 83db/watt/meter loudspeakers could be asking more from one Topping than it has to offer. Depends upon how it is used. If you are trying to fill an average sized room with louder passages, sans clipping, I'd be asking for a demo. If I couldn't get that, I'd be looking elsewhere.

 

[pjug]

We should always be thinking of a 'loudspeaker and amplifier' as a combo. A system, and not something separate, which we often tend to do.

That's one approach. Another way is to get an amp that will pretty much do it all in case you change speakers. Mono AHB2s for example. Too expensive for how I want to spend my money but some people do it this way.

 

[maty]

... 1% distorted heavily clipped with the forest of high order harmonics spread to infinity. Definitely audible! It makes only 2x36W/8ohm of clean power.

At 0.1% (-60 dB) -> about 46 Watts / 8 Ohms

And about 62 watts / 4 Ohms

 

[peng]

At 0.1% (-60 dB) -> about 46 Watts / 8 Ohms

View attachment 202797


And about 62 watts / 4 Ohms

View attachment 202799

Do you think we can agree that the LA90 x 2 bridged is comparable to 1 x AHB2 in terms of output power for speakers rated 8 ohms nominal, with 3 to 4 ohms dips? It seems that many people won't agree based on published specs, and ignoring that part of the measurements by ASR.

 

[anmpr1]

That's one approach. Another way is to get an amp that will pretty much do it all in case you change speakers. Mono AHB2s for example. Too expensive for how I want to spend my money but some people do it this way.

Yes. That's why I mentioned the Vidar. Not that I have any connection to it. But it's cheaper than the Topping, and offers a lot more power in its bridged mode. I haven't read any test reports of it, but presume it is going to be within specs.

Disclaimer: I own an AHB2. So one might consider me biased. That is one reason I was initially skeptical of the Topping, when it was only 'rated' for 8 ohms at higher power. My guess was that it was really too weak an amplifier to be considered practical for a lot of applications. But I guessed wrong. It seems beefy enough, in bridged mode.

For even higher power? Two bridged AHB2s, for specialty applications, is an awful lot of money for most people to pay.

 

[maty]

Pro-Audio and Lighting Calculators : dBs, time, arrays, Hz, DMX ...

Calculators: sound reinforcement (SPL, voltis, dBm, cable, coverage, wavelength, frequency, time, distance, arrays), lighting (DMX) and projection

www.doctorproaudio.com

Usually I listen to my modded and tweaked KEF Q100 (84-85 dB, 3.9 Ohms) < 70 dBSL continuous. Many of my classical music vinyl recordings have tracks with DR15 (15 dB peak). Modern "popular" recordings < 8 or 10 dB peaks.

80 dBSPL continuous in a ROOM is LOUD -> I want at less 80+15 = 95 dBSPL peak


Near field: in phase -> + 3 dB

If 1.8 m (near field) and 0.1% (62 w / 4 Ohms)

 

[RHO]

but it surpasses in what exactly? in something that you can feel and perceive as an improvement?

Maybe. Do we have measurements of all the amplifiers you compare it to?
At least we know that this one is transparent. Maybe it is well below anything that is needed to be transparent. Well, good.
So it clearly surpasses your current gear in objective measurements. That could also actually translate in audibly susceptible improvements.
If it would measure just good enough or very doubtful if some parameters are inaudible to anyone the situation would be different.

The difference with audiophools paying multiple €k for something that makes no audible difference is that most of those things make no measurable difference either, or make a measurable difference in the "wrong" direction and they can be happy it isn't really audible.
The engineering is not there in those products. They are fairytales.
Compare it to a car. How many people pay for a car that can go much faster than the speedlimit. Even the max speed limit on the continent you live on. I think >95% of all cars can do that. But this car has all the safety features build in. Active and passive. Costs you €5k extra for those features. Are those cars over engineered? Is there no use for such powerful cars driving around? Are you stupid to pay for such unnecessary performance and features? Hardly anyone would criticize you for buying such a car although you are not allowed to drive it to its maximum speed anywhere and if it wasn't this powerful the safety features could have been much less needed.
Now imagine that someone buys a car that goes just as fast as the previous one. But the manufacturer tells them it feels much faster because it has special aerospace grade paint on the doors, making it more aerodynamic. You will not see the extra speed on the speedometer, but you will definitely feel it when you drive it! Cost only €5k extra. Actually the heavy paint will slow the car down by 1km/h from 204km/h to 203km/h. So it's actually worse but you will never really notice.
The maximum speed of both cars is subjectively indistinguishable. And when you drive 90km/h, you drive 90km/h in both cars. Only the owner of the second car thinks he drives a faster 90km/h then the first one.
I think we can criticize the owner of the second car for being foolish. Do we do the same for the owner of the first car?

 

[pjug]

Yes. That's why I mentioned the Vidar. Not that I have any connection to it. But it's cheaper than the Topping, and offers a lot more power in its bridged mode. I haven't read any test reports of it, but presume it is going to be within specs.

Disclaimer: I own an AHB2. So one might consider me biased. That is one reason I was initially skeptical of the Topping, when it was only 'rated' for 8 ohms at higher power. My guess was that it was really too weak an amplifier to be considered practical for a lot of applications. But I guessed wrong. It seems beefy enough, in bridged mode.

For even higher power? Two bridged AHB2s, for specialty applications, is an awful lot of money for most people to pay.

I am with you on the system approach. I use Outlaw M2200 with mid 80s sensitivity speakers. If I wanted to change to much more sensitive speakers, though, I'd probably have to change the amps as well.

 

[solderdude]

Do you think we can agree that the LA90 x 2 bridged is comparable to 1 x AHB2 in terms of output power for speakers rated 8 ohms nominal, with 3 to 4 ohms dips? It seems that many people won't agree based on published specs, and ignoring that part of the measurements by ASR.

No need to ignore ASR measurements.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

Thank you very much.
At its limit before reaching all the travel available for the knob ?
I mean, having some 330 degrees to turn, limit is suddenly reached when at 30 or 40 degrees before the end ?

At it's POWER limit ... beyond that you are overdriving it.
The extra bit is provided to compensate for lower level sources.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

That's what I thought but Amir measured and it is +64V as labeled. So the +/- 32V is done inside the LA90 box.

I don't have one here to measure ... so we'll just have to not know for now.

 

[maty]

You can try with this well-known album, or Hotel California track.

Eagles - Hotel California (1976) (Vinyl, Original US) {24-96} [FLAC]

foobar2000 1.4 beta 11 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2018-03-27 20:10:24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Eagles / Hotel California {US}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR15 -1.23 dB -18.96 dB 6:30 A1 Hotel California
DR13 -1.53 dB -18.50 dB 5:05 A2 New Kid In Town
DR15 -0.01 dB -17.36 dB 4:46 A3 Life In The Fast Lane
DR13 -2.38 dB -20.72 dB 4:57 A4 Wasted Time
DR11 -6.44 dB -22.97 dB 1:24 B1 Wasted Time (Reprise)
DR14 -1.16 dB -17.66 dB 4:10 B2 Victim Of Love
DR16 -1.85 dB -21.91 dB 3:58 B3 Pretty Maids All In A Row
DR14 -0.47 dB -17.22 dB 5:11 B4 Try And Love Again
DR13 -1.12 dB -18.71 dB 7:22 B5 The Last Resort
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 9
Official DR value: DR14

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2666 kbps
Codec: FLAC
===============================================

 

[pjug]

I don't have one here to measure ... so we'll just have to not know for now.

I thought we do know. See Amir's post (#563)

 

[Plcamp]

I personally like to see the chase for first place in SINAD because I believe to get to state if the art there, you must look at and fully understand all the details of design. It’s an indicator of superior engineering skill, and I encourage competition for the crown even if the numbers are vanishingly small. Call it a sport to see who is best.

 

[pma]

I personally like to see the chase for first place in SINAD because I believe to get to state if the art there, you must look at and fully understand all the details of design. It’s an indicator of superior engineering skill, and I encourage competition for the crown even if the numbers are vanishingly small. Call it a sport to see who is best.

Maybe the last attempt, as it is hopeless. Lowest SINAD tells nothing about stability and tend to oscillations especially with complex load, nothing about abilities to drive complex load with high +/- phase angle deviations, nothing about current output. Though the ultra low SINAD brings nothing in audibility and sound quality, all the features that I have mentioned do. Even worse, high FB needed to get lowest SINAD means more tendency to instability.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

I thought we do know. See Amir's post (#563)

It makes no sense to do that inside the amplifier when an external supply can do it both easily and cheaply.

 

[BoredErica]

I am confused. Amir seems to be saying almost 200w at 4ohm bridged.

L7 is saying <100w? Am I misunderstanding?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/489907836650782740/968827659503161364/unknown.png

(l7's comment)

 

[ATAineri]

I don't see any benefits using 2 bridged LA90 instead of 2 XPA HC-1.

Measurements of LA90 a way better than Emotiva's.

 

[pjug]

L7 is saying <100w? Am I misunderstanding?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/489907836650782740/968827659503161364/unknown.png

(l7's comment)

L7 says shutdown is "very early". So how early is early is the question? Or maybe the L7 comment is speculation and not by doing?