Benchmark AHB2 Review (Updated Measurements)

[Martini]

Following up on the last few posts. I've a pair of AHB2 bridged as mono-blocks, and was testing to see if I could comfortably get away with just a single amp driving the speakers. Run in stereo mode, I also get a faint tick from both speakers when shutting down, but interestingly do not have when run as mono-block. Again, not an issue, but I did find it curious.

Addendum: The tick in stereo mode was present with both amps. You know I had to verify this.

 

[DonH56]

Following up on the last few posts. I've a pair of AHB2 bridged as mono-blocks, and was testing to see if I could comfortably get away with just a single amp driving the speakers. Run in stereo mode, I also get a faint tick from both speakers when shutting down, but interestingly do not have when run as mono-block. Again, not an issue, but I did find it curious.

Chances are the "tick" is the identical in both channels as they power down, so in bridged mode the "tick signal" does not appear since it is a common-mode signal identical on both outputs.

 

[Descartes]

I listen loud enough that my 1000 watt amplifiers completely run out of power! Remember, the first few watts incrementally get quite a bit louder. But doubling from 500 to 1000 watts is nothing. The curve flattens quickly.....

Hope you are using ear protections!

I don’t think I have run out of power of 600W at 8 Ohm! Did your ears started to bleed?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Hope you are using ear protections!

I don’t think I have run out of power of 600W at 8 Ohm! Did your ears started to bleed?

Why is it so damn hard for some people to realize that;

• different people listen to
• different music in
• different rooms at
• different distances with
• different speakers.

The result is that power needs will be..

• DIFFERENT

 

[theREALdotnet]

Why is it so damn hard for some people to realize that;

• different people listen to
• different music in
• different rooms at
• different distances with
• different speakers.

“I’m not…”

 

[Mnyb]

If you have low efficiency speakers in a large room and listening at a long distance .

You can compound this by also have a lossy room that dampens a lot and also if you use smidge of EQ in the bass ?

 

[restorer-john]

Why is it so damn hard for some people to realize that;

• different people listen to
• different music in
• different rooms at
• different distances with
• different speakers.

The result is that power needs will be..

• DIFFERENT

Because they insist on thinking they need way less power than they actually do.

There’s someone in another thread dribbling on about 50mW levels best SINAD. I had to laugh. A 1970s 2xAA pocket transistor radio would put out 3-4 times that.

I’ve run out of power with 1kW per channel and it’s easy with a genuine 200-300wpc to clip amplifiers on dynamic music.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Because they insist on thinking they need way less power than they actually do.

There’s someone in another thread dribbling on about 50mW levels best SINAD. I had to laugh. A 1970s 2xAA pocket transistor radio would put out 3-4 times that.

I’ve run out of power with 1kW per channel and it’s easy with a genuine 200-300wpc to clip amplifiers on dynamic music.

Could be fun if it was trivial to retrofit clipping leds for cheap. I mean, there's a reason 98 % of residential amps don't have VU-meters or clipping lights..
*adjusts tin foil hat

But yeah, you are right. I once clipped a 340 WRMS @ 8 ohm Yamaha P3200 with a live (hard rock) recording on a pair of these-->
I was surprised at the time. -That they could take it without audible distortion, that is. I swiftly changed the amp to one with more than twice the power.

 

[Geert]

Could be fun if it was trivial to retrofit clipping leds for cheap. I mean, there's a reason 98 % of residential amps don't have VU-meters or clipping lights..

These days you can always measure the maximum output voltage of an amp with a cheap battery powered portable oscilloscope (ideally with data logging). Given how much time and money most audiophiles spend on their HiFi system, I'm surprised I never see anyone perform this experiment. (Well, actually I'm not ). Chasing the Holy grail of 'bit-perfect' digital source components, to feed clipping amps ...

(I did the experiment with my 120w/8ohm integrated HiFi amp and at max. listening volume I'm always below 50% of the max. output, but as Amir said, due to the logarithmic nature of perceived loudness you don't need to go much louder to reach clipping level).

But yeah, you are right. I once clipped a 340 WRMS @ 8 ohm Yamaha P3200 with a live (hard rock) recording on a pair of these--> I was surprised at the time. -That they could take it without audible distortion, that is.

The question is how audible periodic clipping is altogether, of course depending on how an amp handles it. Soft clipping is applied by default on most pop recordings. These days some engineers prefer it over compression. (Of course I'm not talking about the cases where's it's being abused to kill all dynamics).

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Why is it so damn hard for some people to realize that;

• different people listen to
• different music in
• different rooms at
• different distances with
• different speakers.

The result is that power needs will be..

• DIFFERENT

Calm down.

 

[DonH56]

@amirm's Salon2 = 86.4 dB/2.83 Vrms/1 m. They are 6 ohm nominal, 3.7 ohm min, but hover around 4 ohms for most of the their range below 1 kHz. Using 4 ohms yields 83.4 dB/W/m sensitivity. Listening at 10', 1000 W would provide 103.7 dB SPL from a single speaker. That is very loud but not unrealistically so; the Dolby/THX standards shoot for 105 dB peaks per speaker. At 12' distance, SPL drops to 102.1 dB; I do not know how far away he sits. Note an average level of 80 dB is not atypical, and what a lot of mixing/mastering studios use for reference level, so 100+ dB peaks are to be expected.

For many years I have felt that most people overestimate their average levels and underestimate their peaks. Remember a 3 dB increase does not sound much louder but requires twice the power; a 10 dB increase sounds twice as loud and requires ten times the power. A 20 dB peak requires 100x the power compared to your average level.

FWIWFM - Don

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Calm down.

Have you ever had luck calming upset people down by saying that?

 

[Martini]

@amirm's Salon2 = 86.4 dB/2.83 Vrms/1 m. They are 6 ohm nominal, 3.7 ohm min, but hover around 4 ohms for most of the their range below 1 kHz. Using 4 ohms yields 83.4 dB/W/m sensitivity. Listening at 10', 1000 W would provide 103.7 dB SPL from a single speaker. That is very loud but not unrealistically so; the Dolby/THX standards shoot for 105 dB peaks per speaker. At 12' distance, SPL drops to 102.1 dB; I do not know how far away he sits. Note an average level of 80 dB is not atypical, and what a lot of mixing/mastering studios use for reference level, so 100+ dB peaks are to be expected.

For many years I have felt that most people overestimate their average levels and underestimate their peaks. Remember a 3 dB increase does not sound much louder but requires twice the power; a 10 dB increase sounds twice as loud and requires ten times the power. A 20 dB peak requires 100x the power compared to your average level.

FWIWFM - Don

Hey Don (and anyone else), would love your thoughts on this thread before I put one of my AHB2 up for sale. I should add that I also use Dirac, however in the current room it's mostly cutting bass due to room reinforcement. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...2-mono-blocks-sell-one-and-buy-bicycle.51367/

 

[DonH56]

Hey Don (and anyone else), would love your thoughts on this thread before I put one of my AHB2 up for sale. I should add that I also use Dirac, however in the current room it's mostly cutting bass due to room reinforcement. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...2-mono-blocks-sell-one-and-buy-bicycle.51367/

Run one amp, play a little louder than you think you'll ever play, and see if it clips consistently. Can't help you on choosing a bike and all that jazz...

The online SPL calculator I use is this one: http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html I have it bookmarked so it's faster than dredging up my old spreadsheet version.

Dirac Live will boost a max of 10 dB and cut "infinitely" as needed. Most programs offer max boost in the 10 dB range and cut -10 dB or more; it is pretty easy to cut, but boosting can cause excessive power and make for very uneven sound around the room so most (all?) programs limit the amount of boost. That said I have not kept up on Dirac Live or any of the other programs since switching to an SDP-75 (Trinnov Altitude 32) a few years ago.

Tell you what, since your health is more important, just ship me your extra AHB2. I'm willing to sacrifice myself to help you out.

 

[RichB]

Run one amp, play a little louder than you think you'll ever play, and see if it clips consistently. Can't help you on choosing a bike and all that jazz...

The online SPL calculator I use is this one: http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html I have it bookmarked so it's faster than dredging up my old spreadsheet version.

Dirac Live will boost a max of 10 dB and cut "infinitely" as needed. Most programs offer max boost in the 10 dB range and cut -10 dB or more; it is pretty easy to cut, but boosting can cause excessive power and make for very uneven sound around the room so most (all?) programs limit the amount of boost. That said I have not kept up on Dirac Live or any of the other programs since switching to an SDP-75 (Trinnov Altitude 32) a few years ago.

Tell you what, since your health is more important, just ship me your extra AHB2. I'm willing to sacrifice myself to help you out.

I will also accept the AHB2 and bi-bridge the Salon2s thereby guaranteeing hearing loss

I am not surprised that Dune did not clip, when I had a single AHB2s driving the front Salon2s I had a similar experience playing Aquaman that was seriously exercising the woofers. That said, ACD (Audio Compulsive Disorder) would never permit me to return to one AHB2 for the Salon2s.

- Rich

 

[D700]

Have you ever had luck calming upset people down by saying that?

 

[Martini]

Run one amp, play a little louder than you think you'll ever play, and see if it clips consistently. Can't help you on choosing a bike and all that jazz...

The online SPL calculator I use is this one: http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html I have it bookmarked so it's faster than dredging up my old spreadsheet version.

Dirac Live will boost a max of 10 dB and cut "infinitely" as needed. Most programs offer max boost in the 10 dB range and cut -10 dB or more; it is pretty easy to cut, but boosting can cause excessive power and make for very uneven sound around the room so most (all?) programs limit the amount of boost. That said I have not kept up on Dirac Live or any of the other programs since switching to an SDP-75 (Trinnov Altitude 32) a few years ago.

Tell you what, since your health is more important, just ship me your extra AHB2. I'm willing to sacrifice myself to help you out.

I did give it a try a second time running one amp in stereo. This time playing the scene of the aliens coming out of ground in War of the Worlds (one of Tom Cruise's better roles), and even at fingers in my ears level, it never clipped. That's probably the most bass heavy track I have. So, in my medium sized room at a with a listening distance of just under 10-ft, I'm probably safe with just one.

 

[Martini]

I will also accept the AHB2 and bi-bridge the Salon2s thereby guaranteeing hearing loss

I am not surprised that Dune did not clip, when I had a single AHB2s driving the front Salon2s I had a similar experience playing Aquaman that was seriously exercising the woofers. That said, ACD (Audio Compulsive Disorder) would never permit me to return to one AHB2 for the Salon2s.

- Rich

Well yes, I may suffer from some of this also - lol.

 

[MaxBuck]

@amirm's Salon2 = 86.4 dB/2.83 Vrms/1 m. They are 6 ohm nominal, 3.7 ohm min, but hover around 4 ohms for most of the their range below 1 kHz. Using 4 ohms yields 83.4 dB/W/m sensitivity. Listening at 10', 1000 W would provide 103.7 dB SPL from a single speaker. That is very loud but not unrealistically so; the Dolby/THX standards shoot for 105 dB peaks per speaker. At 12' distance, SPL drops to 102.1 dB; I do not know how far away he sits. Note an average level of 80 dB is not atypical, and what a lot of mixing/mastering studios use for reference level, so 100+ dB peaks are to be expected.

For many years I have felt that most people overestimate their average levels and underestimate their peaks. Remember a 3 dB increase does not sound much louder but requires twice the power; a 10 dB increase sounds twice as loud and requires ten times the power. A 20 dB peak requires 100x the power compared to your average level.

FWIWFM - Don

I've said it before; I'll say it again: there's no such thing as too much power.

 

[DonH56]

I've said it before; I'll say it again: there's no such thing as too much power.

You've clearly not replaced as many drivers as I...